Removed from the courtroom today

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by ysacres, Mar 5, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Messages:
    2,510
    Location:
    Wazzu WA
    berto64
    Member
    Posts: 17
    (7/6/01 12:15:35 am)
    Reply Removed from courtroom today
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    A friend is on trial for an alcohol-related shooting.
    At an afternoon break today, court not in session, I was talking to his mom & dad and friends. We were discussing the DA's obvious agenda to chalk this up as a victory for the gun control side. I hadn't taken notice of HER return to the
    DA's table and then she was gone again. Before court came to order the defense atty took the defendant, myself, and another family member into the hall. There I was informed that I was not only to leave the courtroom but the courthouse. Felt like chit cause I didn't want to screw things up for my friend. Apparently the rest of the day went
    well and it should be over manana. Everyone I was sitting with had no idea what I did wrong, nor do I, unless I offended her Klinton admiration concentration. Berto
    What! Trade my m-14 for that plastic piece of ---t!

    Rons Toys
    Moderator
    Posts: 247
    (7/6/01 6:46:49 am)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    It sounds like she overheard something you said that she felt that may have been threating, may be your attitude towards her, and she asked that you be removed from the courthouse. Hope your friends case works out.
    Ron

    berto64
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (7/6/01 1:34:03 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    Ron, That could be so I guess, it has since been pointed out
    that my shaved head, tattoos on my forhead, back of my head, arms, and hand may have intimidated her somewhat. These are all remnants of an older life that I am not ashamed of, but no longer actively pursue. If it was my looks, it just doesn't feel right. I'm a disable vet and feel strongly about the 1st and 2d amendments.
    Berto
    What! Trade my m-14 for that plastic piece of ---t!

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1071
    (7/6/01 1:45:08 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    bert - I'm assuming she thought you might be a remnant from the Aryan Nations that was up north. Wrong of her I know but for some reason we're getting awful liberal attorney's here in this state all of a sudden.

    Were you in a Canyon County courthouse per chance?

    berto64
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (7/6/01 2:10:29 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    Yeppir!
    It was in a Caldwell court. Dist 2. Good judge, everything
    was going OK, sounds positive for my brother in arms.
    Berto64
    What! Trade my m-14 for that plastic piece of ---t!

    ruffitt
    Moderator
    Posts: 214
    (7/6/01 2:16:02 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    Hey, Berto64 -

    If you're up to it and want to have some fun, write a letter to the Presiding Judge asking him specificaly why you were removed from the court room. Be sure to tell him that you are a disabled Vet and that you feel you were unfairly removed from the Court Room because of your
    physical appearance.

    Reason for this would be two-fold. First, if the Judge validates this theory, you may have grounds for a discrimination law suit against the DA.

    Second, if any member of the jury noticed that you were missing from the court room, they may have somehow associated a friendship between yourself with your friend, presuming that if "he had friends like you" (based upon your appearance) he was automatically guilty of the offense. If your friend is found guilty, the presumption of friendship may be the basis for overturning the conviction, or at least a good appeal, if it can be proven.

    Just my non-legal unsolitited opinion.







    ruffitt

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1072
    (7/6/01 2:18:01 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    Figured it had to be a Canyon County courtroom - be warned the judges are pretty much a-holes too.

    Used to live in Canyon County - you couldn't pay me to live there now.

    berto64
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (7/6/01 3:28:53 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    Found out some more info. One of the jurors saw me stick my tongue out at her back. I did it, I admit that, but what the heck are they doing looking at me during testimony? By the way, I'm 5' 11" and 300#. I enjoy retirement.
    What! Trade my m-14 for that plastic piece of ---t!

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1082
    (7/6/01 3:33:37 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    Hey bert - you know juries and how dumb they can be - especially in Ada and Canyon County.

    They were just admiring your tattoos what else?

    Looking forward to Monday.

    berto64
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 30
    (7/8/01 1:30:39 am)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    ruffitt, Thanks for the suggestion on the letter writing idea. The jury is out for the weekend, so things will continue Monday. Berto
    What! Trade my m-14 for that plastic piece of ---t!

    berto64
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 39
    (7/9/01 11:07:28 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    The prosecution was so sure of herself, she only filed
    four counts of aggravated assault, no minor charges.
    My friend was found not guilty of all four charges.
    Hopefully he will turn somewhere for help. Berto
    What! Trade my m-14 for that plastic piece of ---t!

    ruffitt
    Moderator
    Posts: 225
    (7/10/01 7:26:28 am)
    Reply
    Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    Berto64 -

    Congrats to your friend. Guess he got lucky this time. Hopefully this incident will have scared him enough to straighten himself out.

    Regards
    ruffitt

    southernfreedom
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (7/14/01 10:40:42 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    You did not have to leave the courtroom unless the judge ordered you to and stated the reason. We still have public trials in this country. Also, the prosecutor has tort immunity and you cannot sue her.
    Finally, it is my opinion that the attorney for the defendant made a judgment that your presence would
    hurt his client and he is the one who wanted you to leave.

    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 109
    (7/15/01 8:46:49 am)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    I agree with southernfreedom that, in this case, it was likely the defense attorney that wanted you removed.

    I occasionally used a ploy to have folks removed from a courtroom when I did not want them there for one reason or another. I simply added that person to the "Witness List" and invoked the "Rule" that prevents one witness from listening to the testimony of the other witnesses. By doing this I could force the person to wait outside the courtroom. Of course I would later "decide" not to call them as a witness. Crude, but effective.

    Edited by: NeoDebo at: 7/15/01 9:48:31 am

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1358
    (7/15/01 10:29:13 am)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    Debo, I was on the witness list of a trial - kept my mouth shut and sat outside the courtroom - but I also watched the prosecution's witnesses who were also told to not talk amongst themselves about the case.

    Pity my ex-niece couldn't keep her mouth shut to her husband - trial went bye, bye real quick when I asked to speak to my friends attorney and told him what I'd seen and overheard. Considering I'd talked to no one about what was going on inside the courtroom - I was damn accurate about what had been said and what visual aids they'd been using.

    Case dismissed with the judge being sooooooooo mad at my ex-niece and her husband because they'd screwed up. Not that they weren't a bunch of screwups already but this was the icing on the cake.

    southernfreedom
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (7/15/01 8:12:49 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    NeoDebo: So where do you practice? I made a motion to throw out the court reporter because she was a smart a$$ bi*ch and I felt she could not be objective. Judge denied my motion because he didn't want to embarrass the lady.

    TallTLynn: Glad the case was dismissed. One has to really kinda keep quiet in and outside the courtroom when a trial is going on.

    Edited by: southernfreedom at: 7/15/01 9:14:28 pm

    berto64
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (7/16/01 11:54:34 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    But that's no fun, and those things can be sooooo boring!
    I meant no disrespect to the court, just the lop-sided prosecutor. I guess my old MC club mentality surfaced at the
    most inappropiate time. I promise to try harder in the future. Berto

    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 118
    (7/17/01 7:44:54 am)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    In cases such as this, one must remember that the defendant's attorney has the problem of convincing the JURY of his client's innocence. It is his duty to do everything within his power to accomplish this, even to the point of asking friends and/or supporters to leave.

    Frequently the jury is composed of (with absolutely no disrespect intended--these are only descriptive terms) bible-thumpers, soccer moms, ethnics, specific religious groups, and homosexuals. If any friend of the defendant has a physical appearance that would be offensive to any of these, and other, groups, then I believe that it is a good move by the defense attorney to ask that person(s) to stay away.

    I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, berto64, and perhaps I may even agree with you. However, there may be many in the jury pool who might be prejudiced by a person who's friends presented a tattooed, shaved-head appearance, and who stuck his tongue out at the prosecutor in a gesture of disdain and disrespect.

    Again, this is NOT a personal attack on "berto64" or anyone else. I am only pointing out that prejudice is a fact of life and that we ignore it at our peril.

    I might not agree with the defendant's attorney and his assessment, but I would necessarily defer to his (most likely) superior education, knowledge and experience in such a situation.

    Personally, I would not want my presence, appearance, and/or actions to create potential problems for any friend of mine who was on trial in a criminal case. Nor would I be offended if I were asked to stay away if I did present any such appearance.

    Edited by: NeoDebo at: 7/17/01 8:47:49 am

    kdubaz
    Moderator
    Posts: 287
    (7/17/01 12:47:20 pm)
    Reply Re: Removed from courtroom today
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    A lot of food for thought there..............

    Being a former LEO and having sat through many boring hours in court and outside of chambers, I know how hard it is to restrain from commenting on cases and persons involved. Having to maintain a professional demeanor gagged my normal tendency of running off at the mouth. Our City Attorney would often attend shift starts to give pointers on how to prepare complaint reports, contact forms and courtroom appearences. Basic rule: Sit down, direct and to the point answers, shut up, get up and leave. Volunteer nothing, do not let personal feelings be shown, be courteous but firm in answers. Think before opening mouth. If you don't know or have knowledge, so state.

    Everyone in the court has an assigned task and will endeavor to do it to their utmost. Judge, jury, prosecutor and defending attorney. We laymen are merely spectators of the system and have no part in the proceedings, unless called as witnesses or experts. Juries can be swayed by all sorts of outside-the-case distractions, including spectators behavior and dress. The judge has to maintain the courtroom decorum to assure the defendant gets as fair a trial as possible. If removing a person that is distracting the jury or others to maintain that decorum, he is obliged to do so.

    I know how hard it is to sit on your hands and clench the jaws during these proceedings when you feel things are not going the way you want them to or that statements are made counter to your thoughts, however, it must be done.
    Keep below the ridgeline!
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