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Revolver Guys Ammo Question, Do You Prefer 158gr.Or 125gr.What's the difference?

12K views 30 replies 15 participants last post by  myg30 
#1 ·
I am seeing different bullet weights for the 357 and 38 special loads for my new revolver in both 158,130 and 125 grain.What are you guys shooting out of your revolver mostly.I've only been shooting the 158gr.so far,the recoil seems pretty mild in 38 special.
 
#2 ·
I find it helps me to define the purpose of a firearm and load. For example, in my Blackhawk the 357 loads would mainly be for hunting medium size game or self defense for which I would pick a 158gr XTP or maybe a hard cast SWC. In the same revolver 38 special loads would be for target practice, cowboy action shooting, plinking, and shooting small game which would be ideal with 110-130gr XTP and plated bullets.

As a counter example, what purpose does a 110gr XTP serve flying out at 1500 FPS? A 158gr XTP poking along at 700 FPS?

Here are some suggested pairings
110-125gr XTP 38 Special - small game hunting
130gr plated 38 Special - plinking and target shooting
158gr LRN - Cowboy action
158gr SWC hard cast 38 Special - target shooting
158gr XTP 357 Magnum - self defense and medium game
158gr SWC hard cast 357 Magnum - target shooting
 
#3 ·
To add to what SteveM replied, don't overlook the 148 gr wad cutter. Nice bullet that cuts clean holes in paper also doubles for close range pest removal.

If your revolver has fixed sights, experimentation might be required to find a load that shoots to point of aim.

Like many things in life, it boils down to personal preference. Would you rather be run over by a slow moving bus or a speeding mini-cooper?
 
#6 · (Edited)
A lot of the manufactures are going with the lighter bullets in order to generate more bullet speed. Handguns are not the best self defense tools, when compared to rifle bullet speeds, the handguns just don't measure up. There has always been a problem with hollow point bullets expanding reliably in slower handgun bullets. Shooting lighter bullets gives you more speed, and therefore a much better chance that the bullet will mushroom on impact. The plus side to this is that the shooter experiences less felt recoil. The minus side is that a fast moving small bullet that does mushroom on impact won't get the same penetration. It's a swap off. I prefer the 158 gr. Hornady XTP in both .38, and .357. This bullet was designed to open up at slower pistol bullet speeds, and I use it as a hunting round, and as a self defense round. The problem with the .357 is that if the bullet doesn't mushroom, you are probably looking at a pass thru, or over penetration.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Steve M has all you need to know I concur completely. I have reloaded both for almost 60 years. Get at it. As for powder. The 38 special can do good with many powders. I do use more 231 and 700X than anything else. And for the 357 I have had the best performance using H110 for my full magnum loads in both my Ruger Flat top and the S&W 586. H110 works best when the case is full. You can not use H110 for reduced loads. For those loads you must use the faster powders such as 231 and 700X and others. Use your manuals.
 
#9 ·
My .38 Special is limited to an old S&W Military&Police 5 inch barrel. I prefer the 158 grain cast lead round nose for most shooting. That's mostly because I cast my own recycled lead, so the only cost are the primers, powder and bullet lube, and the 158 grain lead bullet was plenty good enough for Police Departments for decades.

I also cast 141 grain wad cutter bullets, and with a mid range charge of Unique powder I get really good accuracy, and shooting is a very pleasant experience recoil wise. If I had a grizzley bear fixin' to knaw on my foot (or any other part of my anatomy), I'd look closely at a .357 magnum loaded with premium 158 grain jacketed hollow points loaded on the toasty side - but there are not too many of those critters around the plains of eastern Colorado. With a pistol or a rifle, bullet choice is always dependent on your intended use. It's wasteful to punch paper or tin cans with premium bullets.
 
#10 ·
In .38 I like 125 gr LSWC's but I have used a lot of 158 grain LSWC as well. In the .357's for practice I use 125 LSWC's and also JFP's and am playing with 158 gr. Hornaday XTP's. I carry a .357 loaded with 158 grain Gold Dots, but they are impossible to find so I'm likely to change.

.38 Special is my very favorite round to load and shoot.
 
#11 ·
In both my Ruger SP101 and S&W 586-3 I shoot the 158 grain cast SWC. Right now I'm loading with 231 and it seems like I'm dropping somewhere around 3.5 grains....maybe 4.0. Both guns are plenty accurate with this bullet.
 
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#12 ·
one good comparison I read regarding different weight bullets, the lighter ones are going to fly faster, and pierce better, but in gun terms slower is not a bad thing,

imagine this, although either option would completely suck, which would hurt more: getting stabbed quick and swift with a very sharp ice pick, or very slowly with a dull spoon.

guess it boils down to why are you shooting in the first place, a light projectile will generally be more accurate at longer ranges, but at close range in 357 magnum, not only it will take out the bad guy but likely the innocent bystander behind them, think about that for a minute, I'd rather carry the heaviest hollow point in 38 special just for that reason.
 
#13 ·
I'm pretty much a complete cast bullet fella when it comes to revolvers. I'll also take bullet weight over velocity every time, (I trust penetration more than expansion), so in the caliber you are asking about it will be 158 gr. or a bit heavier. I'm also not much of one to have different loads for different purposes though there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I definitely understand the reasoning. When I lived in grizzly country I carried a heavily loaded Freedom Arms Mod. 97 in 45 Colt when on fly fishing excursions. Back here in Missouri I'm more likely to carry a 32-20 in one of a few different revolvers.
 
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#14 ·
I have a few questions here. Why is a lighter built preferred for small game? Doesn't it make the same sized hole as a standard weight bullet? It can't be that it destroys less meat, it's the same diameter as the heavier bullet, and it's moving faster! Why do some folks think that the lighter faster bullets will give more penetration? Not true. If both the lighter faster bullet, and the heavier and slower bullets, both open up, mushroom, then the lighter bullet will be slowed fastest due to lack of mass. Newton's third law of motion.
 
#16 ·
carver, this is just a thought about jacketed bullets from a dedicated cast bullet shooter. I assume...and we all know what happens when one assumes...that the lighter bullets would have a thinner jacket as compared to the heavier bullets, thus opening up quicker? If such is so then to me it seems the heavier, thicker jacketed bullet, would be desirable for edible small game as it would not be as destructive. Other than that as a possible explanation I concur with everything you said. As an example, and I've probably mentioned it before, I've had several heavy for caliber cast bullets at the moderate velocities of between 1100 and 1400 fps penetrate deer lengthways, brisket through ham....(ahhhh.....Newton's 3rd law of motion, eh?) I've never had a high velocity, jacketed bullet do that. Crossways, through a deer, doesn't take a lot of penetration.
 
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#17 ·
I'm not real sure about the copper jacket thickness on lighter bullets vs. heavier bullets. But what I do know is that bullet manufacturing companies have figured out that a faster bullet has a better chance of opening up, or mushrooming, i.e. rifle ammo. So they have applied this knowledge to handgun ammunition. While you can't get past the laws of physics, you have to be creative. If you want more speed, you can't add more powder, or a faster burning powder, so you just make a lighter bullet! I also cast bullets, and trust me, cast bullets will give you all the penetration you want, and then some! I shoot a .38 load designed for my Ruger SP 101. It's a 158 gr. DEWC that is extra hot, or .38+P+. I won't shoot it in any of my .38's! It's a proven fact that a bullet that doesn't expand, can only make a hole as large as it's original diameter. A .38 that does open up, or mushroom, is making a hole that is closer to .50. The bigger the hole, the faster the air escapes, or the blood! Hard cast bullets just pass right on thru, making them perfect for shooting small game, and yet still a good choice for large game, and even dangerous game, because they penetrate, go deep, and break bones.
 
#18 ·
Great point, Carver. It makes no sense to prefer a faster, lighter bullet for small game, if a faster bullet will destroy more meat than the slower, heavier bullet - both kill just as dead - and it's not likely that the bullet speed will make any difference in hitting the target with a killing shot.

Maybe it just goes back to the age-old thought process of 'it's better to hit the big animal with a really big rock and hit the smaller animal with a really fast rock'. I'm a 'really big rock' kind of guy - to me it's better to use a heavy bullet than it is to use a faster light bullet. Like the .45ACP ball load going 900 FPS vs. the 9mm load going 1250 FPS - the .45ACP is a better known as a man stopping round.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I agree completely. There are two camps though on this subject, the speed junkies, and the mass junkies. I belong to the latter, but the other side likes to say "speed kills"! Personally I don't think it's so much the speed of the bullet, or the lack there of, but more a case of how big a hole can I put in my intended target! If I could conceal, and carry a 70 caliber hand gun, I would. But then again, if my Golden Sabers expand, they will punch a hole that is .75" in diameter! And my .45 measures a whopping 11.5 mm! Hey, that's bigger than a 10!
 
#20 ·
I carry a .357 loaded with 158 grain Gold Dots, but they are impossible to find so I'm likely to change.
If you hurry you can get them from SGAmmo, they've 220 boxes of 50 in stock for $50 each.

one good comparison I read regarding different weight bullets, the lighter ones are going to fly faster, and pierce better, but in gun terms slower is not a bad thing,

guess it boils down to why are you shooting in the first place, a light projectile will generally be more accurate at longer ranges, but at close range in 357 magnum, not only it will take out the bad guy but likely the innocent bystander behind them, think about that for a minute, I'd rather carry the heaviest hollow point in 38 special just for that reason.
I think you've just put reality completely bass ackwards. Slow moving heavy bullets penetrate further which is why some people chose an AR over a pistol for home defense. Now if you needed to penetrate a steel pate then yes, velocity is your friend. If you want to shoot long range you want a high BC bullet and in rifles that means the heaviest bullet you can get will have the flattest trajectory and highest down range velocity. At typical pistol shooting distances bullet weight isn't going to make a bit of difference in accuracy. For self defense purposes if you're looking for a factory hollow point in 38 Special you'll not find any loads over 135gr from Federal or Speer and the only mainstream 158gr self defense load I could find was the 158gr XTP from Hornady. My personal choice for self defense in a 38 Special would be the 135gr Gold Dot short barrel +P load.

I have a few questions here. Why is a lighter built preferred for small game? Doesn't it make the same sized hole as a standard weight bullet?
One reason is the lighter bullets can be available with lighter jackets that expand more easily, but this isn't always the case and you have to buy a bullet designed for light game. The main reason that comes to my mind is that a fast moving hollow point expands faster than a slow moving one. In light game like a rabbit you need all the help you can get to start the expansion. That said, I once shot a rabbit at about 15 yards with a .22 short and it made two hops before falling over dead.
 
#21 ·
If you hurry you can get them from SGAmmo, they've 220 boxes of 50 in stock for $50 each.

I think you've just put reality completely bass ackwards. Slow moving heavy bullets penetrate further which is why some people chose an AR over a pistol for home defense. Now if you needed to penetrate a steel pate then yes, velocity is your friend. If you want to shoot long range you want a high BC bullet and in rifles that means the heaviest bullet you can get will have the flattest trajectory and highest down range velocity. At typical pistol shooting distances bullet weight isn't going to make a bit of difference in accuracy. For self defense purposes if you're looking for a factory hollow point in 38 Special you'll not find any loads over 135gr from Federal or Speer and the only mainstream 158gr self defense load I could find was the 158gr XTP from Hornady. My personal choice for self defense in a 38 Special would be the 135gr Gold Dot short barrel +P load.

One reason is the lighter bullets can be available with lighter jackets that expand more easily, but this isn't always the case and you have to buy a bullet designed for light game. The main reason that comes to my mind is that a fast moving hollow point expands faster than a slow moving one. In light game like a rabbit you need all the help you can get to start the expansion. That said, I once shot a rabbit at about 15 yards with a .22 short and it made two hops before falling over dead.
Bullet expansion isn't really about how thin, or how think the jacket is, it's more about the hollow point of the bullet, or the softness of the lead. I don't want expanding bullets for hunting small game. It's already small, I don't want to blow it up! I have killed squirrels, and rabbits with a 30-06, but they were all head shots. In pistols there really isn't that much difference in bullet speed between lighter, and heavier bullets. I do believe that the lighter, faster bullet has the best chance of opening up. But due to lack of weight, it looses penetration due to drag, once it does open up. And I've killed hundreds of rabbits with a .22 short. Shoot em in the eye, and they don't go anywhere!
 
#23 ·
No problem, cause I don't know enough either! We live, we learn! I hope I learn!
 
#24 ·
Steve - just an opinion - but a pistol is a much better home defense choice than an AR (in the typical 5.56mm caliber) because of the over penetration factor. This opens up a whole can of worms, especially because everybody and their sister has an opinion on this subject. To me - any rifle round, especially FMJ but also to include expanding bullets - is a poor choice for shooting close range inside of a house. Way too much of a chance that the round will pass thru the target (and also thru a wall into another room where someone you know may be). The other thing is a rifle/carbine length weapon is just too long for very close quarters. But that is soley an opinion, and I'm certain that MANY will disagree with valid counter points. Again, a heavy pistol bullet at moderate velocity is my preference. In that I agree with Georgerc.
 
#25 ·
I don't know first hand or even from reading a reliable source, all I know is that there are plenty of people saying the AR doesn't over penetrate through walls as much as your slow moving heavy pistol bullet. I've seen claims that the FBI has a study on MP5 Versus M4, but not actually seen it or how impartial their testing was or wasn't.

This is opposite of what you and Georgerc are saying so I simply wanted to point out that a fair number of people are claiming the exact opposite. I live in a densely populated area with low crime so I don't expect to send any bullets flying, but if they do the first ones will be 180gr HST and I will worry about where they all went after my family is safe.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I call bs on ar not over penetrating. I've shot plenty of targets including thin steels like 1/4 and 3/16, plus's phone books, drywall, waterjugs, boards, hay bales comparing crossbow and handgun and rifles.

Sandbags do present a benefit to crossbow, However in all other things, rifle seems to trump pistols dealing with comparable types of ammo.

Lets not forget energy calcs in physics. Mass and velocity are factors for energy. Considering some rifle velocities are in the 3000fps rang easily, you then need to look at projectile mass. 220-230 gr 45 slug at a snails pace vs a ? 165gr 30cal? Speed demon. Not a double in mass from slug to slug, but more than double, possibly tripple the velocity

185gr seems to push 1200ish fps and 615 ft# on 45 acp

62gr 5.56, 3100fps 1303ft#

At looks pretty good vs 45 acp
 
#26 ·
Most bullets are designed for a specific purpose. I'm not aware of a bullet available to the public that was specifically designed to reliably stop a bad guy and specifically not penetrate walls.

Drywall wasn't designed to stop bullets.

This leaves us with a potential quandary doesn't it?
 
#27 ·
About the only continual source of information on the usefulness of the AR for home defense that I've read has been the NRA Rifleman magazine. I kind of take what I read there with 'a grain of salt' after reading RAVE reviews of inaccurate-yet-expensive rifles (a $3500 hunting rifle that shoots 3" groups at 100 yards being a real bargain?)

Seems we strayed waaaay off the subject here. It is for you to decide on what to use for self defense. Good luck!
 
#29 ·
My .38 Special and my .357 Magnums each have their preference to which bullet preforms best in them. I have a 2" .38 that can shoot 125 gr.cast bullets great, but just throws 158s out there hither and yon. Another .38 w/3" barrel will only shoot worth a darn if it's fed 150 gr. DEWCs. My 4" .357 prefers 160 gr Lachmiller SWCs over my 125s any day. Now that's accuracy. If I use a gun for SD it would prolly be loaded with 160 LSWCs, but I do use 150 gr. DEWCs over a hot load of W231 for one of my "House Guns". So, I believe SteveM is correct; depends on what the intended purpose for your gun/load is and how much your gun likes a particular bullet...
 
#30 · (Edited)
Rifle, shotgun, or pistol, to me it doesn't matter! I don't have to worry about who might be in another room, so long as the wife is in the same room I'm in. I have an AK, a shot gun, and a .45 by my bed. Either one works for me!
 
#31 ·
I think the best bullet and weight to shoot in any handgun is the one that shoots to point of aim in your gun,functions 100 % in your gun and , you can handle it and control it for fast multiple shots.
I see most police,federal agency's are going back to the new 9mm,147g and dropping the .40 cals.
Back in early 90's the saga of 115g +P+, vs 147g subsonics in 9's.

How many more years before we return to clubs and sticks with rocks tied to them ?

Mike
 
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