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S&W .40 Sigma trigger mod

69K views 52 replies 23 participants last post by  Rocketman1 
#1 ·
:cool::cool:

Having purchased a new VE Sigma .40 at christmas, I studied some
history of this Glock knock off afterwards. I have been shown a simple tip to improve trigger pull ( reduction ).

I though I would ask opinions concerning this...and any other views of this weapon.

( It was all I could afford for a carry gun, taking CCH this month , I
know there are better weapons , but did observe mostly favorable shoots on web. I have yet to shoot this gun ....)

:cool:
 
#3 ·
sigmas are good guns. IF YOU CAN GET USED TO THE 3 MILLION POUND TRIGGER. I have owned 2, one in 9mm and one in .40, they both shot very well, and functioned flawlwssly with everything from cheapy plinker loads to full power +p loads. i would certainly consider another if the price were right. Post the details on the trigger tips, im very curious...
 
#4 ·
:cool::cool:

Basic to do is : keep eye on Parts

1. have good set of Punches - easy to punch

2. At rear of gun , push pin out.

3. Pull up on Hammer assembly, maneuver
carefully up and out.

4. Remove springs as listed below.

5. Remove rear TAIL spring.

6. Remove OUTER spring , leave smaller INNER
spring . Make sure end of INNER spring fits
good on small round circle of Hammer assbly.

This does not affect Hammer strike strength...
and I was told that the two springs being removed were added AFTER Glock sued S&W
and won the case ( copying Glock on Receiver )
 

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#5 ·
i'll be damned, i didnt think there was a way to improve the trigger pull on those things. Have you tried it yet?
 
#6 ·
There has been a lot on this subject on the S&W forum.
You state you haven't fired it yet. Fire it and if you don't like it, then if you find it unsatisfactory look for some improvements.
The trigger has always been controversial on this model. There are so many fixes(?) on the S&W forum I can't count them all.
If you want to alter the trigger be prepared to affect reliability as well as your lifetime warranty.
If you decide to sell it make sure you state you have monkeyed with the trigger to avoid a lawsuit in the event there is a catastrophic failure.
Now, I have a Sigma 40VE. The trigger is not as plesant as a target pistol. In fact I have sent it to S&W for a trigger problem (failure to release after firing and for binding).
It is an accurate pistol and the more you fire it you will get used to the trigger or you won't. I've had double action triggers that were worse.
If you want to get educated(?) enlightened(?) on the Sigma trigger go on the S&W forum and be prepared for an endless list of fixes(?) from removing springs, to polishing, to altering parts.
 
#7 ·
good point charlie, both the sigmas i had were unusually accurate for a 4' with a thousand pound trigger pull, perhaps you have a valid suggestion worth consideration to all sigma owners out there. Thanks for talking some sense into me... But those 2 ton triggers still suck...
 
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#8 · (Edited)
I too purchased a new .40 Sigma in a rush after Obama won the election. I did not do any research, just thought S&W would be great and four magazines and only $329.00 at Academy, what a deal. The guy, Robert, at Academy did not want to let me dry fire, mumbling about video cameras and so on. There were many people waiting so I made the purchase in haste and soon regretted it, until NOW.:mad:

After shooting it, I was all over the place,:( I couldn't have gotten that stale since retiring from the Navy, having qualified Expert with both the 1911 and the M9, could I. I bought a Bersa .380 and punched ragged holes center target with it and a C9, so it must be the gun. I read about it on several forums and then called LSG, here in Texas and Mr. Smith helping me ship it free of charge under warranty. It only took a little over seven days and I got it back, much better, but still not as smooth or crisp as my other guns, he did reduce it from 12# down to 9#, but still a little gritty. . . more reading.

As the gent above mentioned, I dissassembled then polished all moving, contact parts with a dremel and fine jeweler's rouge, lubed with oil and reassembled, better:eek:, but still disappointing. I subsequently purchased a Stoeger Cougar 8000 .40 from Academy and the nice man let me dry fire it, WOW, nice and smooth.:)

Later I removed the pig-tail spring only shown in the picture above and cleaned and lubed this time with constant velocity hi-temp moly grease, wiping off the excess. The grease sticks much better to the plastic friction surfaces than oil. Now, Off to the range, WOW, shoots better than a friends G-23 now, he can't believe it either, over 100 rounds and no issues, but smooth clean, light (5-6) pound trigger pulls. Back in the black:), even my 13 yr old grandson likes it best now. I may even consider purchasing a 9mm and doing the trigger job myself, for my wifes personal bedstand defense!!:D

update, I substituted a ball point pen spring, that I cut down to fit, to replace the larger outer spring. I had tried the single small spring, but the trigger would not reset after a couple of rounds. It now shoot great, with about 5# pull. my groups are soooo much better. I put another 100 rounds through it today, mostly at the 7 and 10 yard lines. 2-3" groups at 7 yds, 3-4" groups at 10 yards all rapid fire, weaver stance. I really am starting to warm up to this pistol after all... But I bought a Bersa Thunder Pro 9 at the gun show this weekend and shot 100 rounds through it today, WOW!!! Shoots better than my Cougar .40 and that's saying something!!
 
#9 ·
I actually bought a Sigma 40VE and first thing did the trigger mod by removing the pigtail and the outer sear reset springs, and adding back a pen spring just for support and a little sear reset support. The trigger is set at about 6-7 lbs. with a clean break with moderate trigger travel...a bit less than a revolver. First time out, I found the feed from the magazine almost silky, with no forward slide feeling the cartridge feed at all...It took a few shots to get used to the trigger, which was quicker than I expected, but after that almost all of my shots were in the black at 15 yards, getting tighter as I got used to the trigger. Sights are very good to excellent. This is going to be my primary CCW...significantly lighter than my Sig Pro, and shoots almost as good. I really appreciate the photos and the instructions here, which were the deciding factor to purchase this pistol from budsgunshop.com. This is one of those things that really came out good...price, easy enhancement, reliable, accurate, light weight, and natural hand fit.
 
#11 ·
I work at a shooting range in Texas I asked several gunsmith about the trigger mod and all said the same thing not to mess with it lol. I know a lot of us have done the trigger mod but not many post how they function after words. I have a 40 s&w i decided not to listen to the gunsmith and since no one work on the sigmas I replaced the striker spring with a wolf 3 1/2lb, I removed the tail spring, and left the other two springs as they were i have shot about 500 rounds and it works great. I would like to find a replacement spring instead of just removing it. If any of u have tried it with one spring please e-mail me let me know how it works one of my friends said his trigger was not reseting with only one spring. antonio.dehoyo@yahoo.com please let me know and if you know where to buy a repalcement spring (lighter spring for the outter let me know) thanx
 
#12 ·
One spring? do it all the time. with the wolff reduced power striker spring and a sear face mod, the trigger resets every time and never have run into a light strike. The trigger reset is dependent on the trigger spring, not the double sear spring.
 
#18 ·
I bought the S&W Sigma .40 for a concelled hand gun. I was not able to go practice with the gun prior to the class. My instructor couldnt believe I was taking the class wiithout even shooting my gun. I ended up shooting a 97 on the test. The only two things I have found that I dont like is it has a plastice trigger and does not have a safty. It does have a pretty heavy trigger but being no safty I wouldnt back off on it too much.
 
#19 ·
It is a safe action pistol. DA only and no exposed hammer. It doesnt need an external safety. its never cocked. Pulling the trigger cocks and fires the weapon. and that little 2 piece trigger is a trigger safety that prevents the trigger form being inadvertently pulled. you kinda have to mean to shoot one of these glock wannabees.

Besides, IMO, the real safety with any firearm is snugly nestled between your ears.. ;)
 
#20 ·
I think im gonna sticky this thread.. I needed it a couple times here recently and had to dig it up out of the archives. :)
 
#21 · (Edited)
I think im gonna sticky this thread.. I needed it a couple times here recently and had to dig it up out of the archives. :)
Thank you JLA..and I hope it has helped some.

I will add the following since last original post here;

- The pistol is still doing fine, not only is my initial carry pistol still,
and did fine since initial CHL, I subsequently became an Instructor for
Texas in 2010, and used it for that, as qualifying requires both a revolver
and a SA or auto. I was at 242 with this pistol out of needing 225 as
Instructor to qualify from possible 250 allowed. Texas students require
190 or better with weapon of choice. A qualify with auto allows revolver
carry also, however revolver use allows only that type carry etc..

- I since learned this pistol, in spite of "so called" Glock lawsuit, was indeed
designed to have such a pull per trigger, as this is indeed, the only safety
aspect of the weapon, short of the "essential safety between the ears"
as mentioned. :D

- I have seen on various other sources, this "trigger pull" and action
feel, was a result of S&W desire to copy as close as possible the DA
feel of a Model 60 revolver. I have tried both, and can believe this.

- I have also " learned" and since proven, most were right on in their
advice that 500 rounds or so would produce about the same results as
the "mods" I had explored from others initially.

- I have subsequently left the pigtail spring off, however I have taken
others advice and used a spring similar to a ball pen type to indeed be
there to possibly keep the inner actual "work" spring in place.

- Besides the actual breakin or more important "practice and use and
general familiarity " with pistol, the most effective maintenance I do
want to add for any is regarding the plastic sear mount hump or section
that trigger (springs) assembly levers against per use. This rounded
portion and area responds well to a small amount of black lithium or similar
grease. It does remove some grittiness experienced by so many.

- The "other" way to improve trigger feel and grittiness I did not mention
or include in above initial post, I learned by my own examination. The trigger spring assembly shown (where pigtail is removed) has inner walls
or contact surfaces that produce friction as these "springs" that are shown
travel or work .....I noticed that the surfaces involved per the friction or
travel were rough and unfinished or unpolished versus the type of surface
one might expect from fine machining etc....in fact, turns out these
surfaces were left as is, per economics of manufacture , and are actually
one of the first areas looked at and worked when S&W (used) to do
free return work on these pistols initially.

I happened to have several sets of very fine relay files from years of
electronic work, and with these and the use of a good polish ( Mothers,
mag wheel cream) I "carefully" did indeed affect these surfaces with an
end result that greatly reduced any grit feel or grit drag etc..

- I know of no way to reduce "travel" of this trigger design, as it is what
it is. I also have since learned the use of "Glock" or 'Wolff " or similar
spring change outs that I was warned against, do indeed, at some time
when you are not expecting it, eventually cause or are likely to cause
a fail to strike or sufficient hammer strike to primer. So as poundage
reduction on a "carry weapon" was never my intent, I am glad I never
explored this option, and would advise against it.

- I would also advise is very important to effectively grease the
" 6 " points as described in manual. This weapon does not like or need
much oil.

regards,
 
#22 ·
I think im gonna sticky this thread.. I needed it a couple times here recently and had to dig it up out of the archives. :)
I have the VE9, and I'm not used to that trigger pull yet, and I'm not sure if I ever will. After 1,300+ rounds through it the trigger pull has not improved, and I'm still all over the place with it. Most of my shots come in low and left, around the 7 to 8 o'clock position, which tells me I'm jerking the trigger rather than pulling it.

The one good thing I can say is I have never had one failure at all. It will fire anything I put in it. It is very reliable. I have been thinking about trying the trigger mod, but I'm afraid I would just bugger something up.

Glad you "Sticyed" it, now I know wehere to find it if I get brave.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I have the VE9, and I'm not used to that trigger pull yet, and I'm not sure if I ever will. After 1,300+ rounds through it the trigger pull has not improved, and I'm still all over the place with it. Most of my shots come in low and left, around the 7 to 8 o'clock position, which tells me I'm jerking the trigger rather than pulling it.

The one good thing I can say is I have never had one failure at all. It will fire anything I put in it. It is very reliable. I have been thinking about trying the trigger mod, but I'm afraid I would just bugger something up.

Glad you "Sticyed" it, now I know wehere to find it if I get brave.
Yes, I would not want to suggest anything that affects the safety of the
weapon such as lessening trigger pull to a dangerous level as some springs
and mods can do. And of course, one should have some familiarity with
mechanical workings and tooling.

I have added the following info after three years of using and carrying my
Sigma, and as to how I got this pistol, I invite any to read the thread
'My Sigma" in pistol forum.

The only thing I have done besides the basic mod/maintenance I show
in these pics ( I did not take pics, only annotated them ) is that I purchased and have used a metal guide rod and spring kit (19 lbs) as
to ensure integrity of use. I have since agreed with most posters on
S&W forums that such is not needed usually, as the plastic (Glock style)
rod should outlive pistol...however, for $29.00 AND having the original as a
spare, I have not regretted this change of guide rod etc...if anyone does
choose such a rod/spring change, be sure to "contact" them and make sure
you tell them VE or what you have, or you will surely receive a Full size
part.....!

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto...RRENT 4 INCH SERIES PISTOLS/cID1/mID58/dID260

The factory parts schematic I have annotated shows the "lube" or grease
points as described in manual.

I also advise polishing "hand only" the barrel feed ramp to mirror polish
especially for Hornady or other Defensive loads as I use and promote for
all CHL carry.

These annotated pics should be self explanatory,

regards,

yellerdawg
 

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#24 · (Edited)
One more "general" polishing mod I forgot to include, that has
done well "for me" anyway..

I will also add that if what I have read on S&W and elsewhere is correct, S&W has
sold per renewed contract over 100k by now of the VE series to middle eastern law enforcement
and military, including Iraq and Afghan etc....


yellerdawg
 

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#25 ·
Thanks for posting the pictures yellerdawg, they were a great help in understanding this.

So you have polished as describbed in the pics, and if I understand correctly, you have removed the small pig tail spring, but have left both the inner and outer coil springs as they were?

- I have subsequently left the pigtail spring off, however I have taken
others advice and used a spring similar to a ball pen type to indeed be
there to possibly keep the inner actual "work" spring in place.
Now this is where I get a little lost. This spring you describe as being similar to that of a ball pen type, does it replace the pig tail spring?

Thanks
 
#26 ·
Thanks for posting the pictures yellerdawg, they were a great help in understanding this.

So you have polished as describbed in the pics, and if I understand correctly, you have removed the small pig tail spring, but have left both the inner and outer coil springs as they were?

Now this is where I get a little lost. This spring you describe as being similar to that of a ball pen type, does it replace the pig tail spring?

Thanks
No Rocketman....the little pig tail is removed...."some" say it is a direct
result of the S&W Glock settlement (from S&W obviously copying so
much of a Glock, and that it wasnt there on very first Sigmas and only showed up till after legal issues...? ) others say its there to help ensure
sear resets after each shot...?

No, the "similar" to a pen spring mentioned, when you look, is actually
a LARGER spring that totally rides over, a smaller diameter INNER spring,
with much more tension, and actually does the work..the outer spring seems really there to keep this inner spring in check and installed..etc..

When I obtained the mod(s) originally and pics from S&W forum...the
mod actually shows taking inner smaller spring and using a dremel wheel
disc, shortening it by "almost" 1/8 inch, and also same to outer spring...in
order to reduce some pull....

I do not endorse changing the INNER spring at all, for possibility of indeed
affecting sear/trigger reset, but I do or did change the outer...most indeed
just got a ball point pen soft spring to replace with...however, I searched and found a "grab bag" of industrial compression and expansion springs
and found one same length. but half the tension...etc...but..a ball pen
spring would have probably done the same. I placed "original" outer spring in
little bag with factory proof case should I ever transfer weapon, however
if any have read My Sigma post...is obvious I will not get rid of this
pistol.

Please contact me with any further questions or comments...thanks..

yellerdawg

note per pics I added....

- I annotated about cutting outer spring as he explained...but...I didnt
and actually got a different and SHORTER (less tension) spring...and did
nothing to INNER spring. This way, "some" trigger/hammer pull was reduced yet important INNER spring still held in place....

And the grind wheel was to flatten any cut so a spring if shortened would STILL have a good area or foot to catch the little cam that holds it in
place in "hammer" assembly .....?
 

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