SA 1911 a1 mil spec

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by hd49, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. hd49

    hd49 New Member

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    I have a 1911 A1 Springfield Arms that hasn't had many rounds fired through it. It shoots all over the map. Is there any thing I can do to make it a better, or more accurate gun? Thanks I am new to this so I would value any help.
  2. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    so many things you can do . it depends on how much you want to spend. but a barrel and bushing is the first place to start. there are many companies that supply what you need. i happen to use kings gun works the prices are resonable and they've been fixing up and selling parts for the 45 auto long before it became cottage industry. google kings and check out their prices. you can get a barrel / bushing matched set for cheap.
  3. hd49

    hd49 New Member

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    Thanks Oscar.
    Is this stuff I can do or do I need a gunsmith?
  4. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    thats the great thing about the 45 it can be done at home in a matter of minutes. have you ever removed the slide ? very simple and the instruction should be in the manual. getting the slide stop to line up is a bit tricky but again clear instructions in the manual. the matched barrel bushing combo is a drop in part. it will improve your shooting as long as you're doing your part. lots of free info on the "net" as well
  5. kingcuke

    kingcuke Member

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    Are you shooting offhand or off a rest? I have a SA 1911A1 mil spec and off hand the tiny front sight can sometimes be hard to see and keep a consistent sight profile.. Mine seems reasonably accurate, but the front sight is on the primitive side.
  6. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    good point, if after going to a match type barrel bushing combination the sights should be changed. lots of options there . and well worth what ever they cost.
  7. hd49

    hd49 New Member

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    I am shooting off hand, and when I say all over the map it can even hit the target in the next lane. If that helps at all. It is very inaccurate. I had other people try it with the same results. So I no longer shoot it but would like to if it can be fixed.
  8. techoca

    techoca New Member

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    Mine is very accurate off hand unless it is dirty and there is lead in the barrel.
  9. MAGNUM44

    MAGNUM44 New Member

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    Oscar you mean that a factory new gun that only has a 100 or so rounds through it , & the guy needs a new barrel & bushing for it already, thats hard for me to follow, the first thing he should do is Send the gun back to SA & let them try to correct the gun"s problem if there is any, It has a lifetime warrenty & SA is great they will put in parts if needed, test the gun & ship it back to him free of charge RE Lifetime Warrenty. but to go buying & spending money on add on parts is foolish, I can see if the gun was a few yrs old and acting up, then start to re build it from the ground up, What do you think about the returning it to SA first ?
  10. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    This is a rather old thread. No offense to the original poster, but hopefully others reading this may profit. Especially if they are relatively new to handgun shooting or have trouble keeping 5 shots in a group that could be covered by a side by side pair of playing cards with a decent handgun at a distance of 7 yards (21').

    Over 55 years, and countless hours, of often being on police, private club, and public ranges (often as a certified instructor and/or range safety officer) has caused me to observe that INCOMPETENT SHOOTERS OFTEN TEND TO BLAME THE GUN for their mistakes and shortcomings.

    If one wants to talk about serious handgun proficiency, fifty yards is the standard US Outdoor Bullseye range for all but Rapid Fire (5 shots in 10 sec.) and Timed Fire (5 shots in 20 sec.) at 25 yards.

    The B-6 and B-8 targets' scoring rings are the same size at both ranges. The 7 ring is 11" in diameter, 8 ring is 8", 9 ring 5.5",10 ring 3.33" and X ring 1.7". Historically, a 70% score for a course of fire is usually the dividing line between an incompetent shooter and a "Qualified" shooter. It is not at all unusual to see an Expert shooter take a mil-spec 1911 with "Ball" spec. (230 gn. FMJ, nominal 850 fps, commercial or military) ammo and "punch out" a score of 85/100 at fifty yards.

    As free info the U S Army discovered from actual tests in the late 1950's that the average GI 1911A1 could group 10 shots from a machine rest within 6" at 50 yards. Some very good pistols approached 4", and of course some very bad pistols grouped much bigger than 6" The 45 "Ball" ammo is not capable of averaging better than 1.9" @50 yds. (1960's USA tests from an accuracy firing fixture); and the USA acceptance standard for a National Match grade 1911A1 was 10 shot 3" avg. @50 yds. in the early 1960's.

    IF YOU WANT TO SHOOT WELL; YOU NEED DO ONLY THREE THINGS:

    (1) Point gun at target and focus on the sight picture; not the target.
    (2) See the sight picture on the target and IGNORE the fact THAT IT MOVES around on the target.
    (3) While doing #'s (1) & (2) above, apply decisive, smooth, progressive, uninterrupted, rearward pressure to the trigger until you see the front sight jump from the recoil of the bullet leaving the barrel.

    If one follows these three simple steps, one can not miss by much! The hit on the target will be near to where the front sight was just before it jumped. If you do not see it jump you closed you eyes as you flinched and jerked the trigger! {In which case, you likely missed badly.}

    Most unskilled shooters are very concerned about the movement of the sight picture on the target. They try to stop the movement in the center and pull the trigger. By the time the bullet exits the barrel the gun is pointed way off target. A competent shooter never knows the exact instant the gun will fire!

    Hope someone find this to be of value.
  11. Insulation Tim

    Insulation Tim Active Member

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    Good info Hammer, for both new shooters and for some of us that have gotten sloppy about the basics.
  12. robertscheib

    robertscheib New Member

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    I realise I'm a real latecomer to this thread - but having just bought two new Sprinfield Armory 1911's I would like to make a comment.
    Bought a "GI" model first - then went back and traded my near new Glock 22 in for a stainless "Mil Spec"....yeah yeah I definitely have the 1911 sickness....
    Anyway, I began shooting the .45's in pretty much same way as my 9mm and .40 SW Glocks but was not having much success with accuracy etc. A good friend who has a long history with 1911's and .45 cal revolvers watched me shoot for a bit, took the pistol and promptly "clover leafed" 7 rounds in the bullseye of a target on the 25 ydr line - then began teaching me some of the things he learned during years of competitive shooting: proper two hand hold, solid "off hand" technique, shooting stance, arm position etc - and now I'm shooting these things really well for a newby.
    FWIW: I'd first make certain that you have really good basic shooting technique THEN began wondering about accuracy.
  13. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    i say its shooter error. honestly
  14. Oldeyes

    Oldeyes Member

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    Based upon the fact that the OP had others attempt to shoot the pistol and that they experienced the same results, I think that it is time for the pistol to do a return trip to the SA factory for some warranty work. SA is typically pretty proud of their 1911's and as a result they also do a decent job on their warranty work.

    And to compliment Hammerslagger's excellent 1911 shooting technique input, I would like to submit a few procedures that you can do before the pistol purchase in an attempt to avoid getting a 1911 pistol of questionable accuracy or accuracy potential. I do the following:

    On an empty pistol I always allow the open slide to close rapidly via releasing of the slide stop. As that procedure makes some pistol sellers a bit nervous, I always ask permission prior to doing that. Then I check for a tight side to side and up and down fit of the slide to the frame. If slop is noted I reject the pistol or negotiate the price down accordingly. A sloppy slide to frame fit often typically generates a shotgun pattern. A sloppy slide to frame fit can corrected by a good 1911 gunsmith, but it can cost $$$.$$ to do it correctly.

    Next with the slide now forward use your finger pressure to check the fit of the muzzle end of the barrel to the barrel bushing and also of the barrel bushing to the slide. There should virtually no play whatsoever detected in any of those components and the overall fit should be very tight. If there is detectable play, either reject the pistol or crank the cost of a new bushing and/or barrel plus gunsmith fitting into the equation. A sloppy barrel to bushing and/or bushing to slide fit also generates inconsistent shotgun patterns.

    Now check to make sure that the barrel link below the barrel securing the barrel to the frame is sized appropriately by gently pressing down on the exposed very back top breach area of the barrel. There should be just negligible downward excursion if the barrel is well fitted into the locking lugs and the barrel link is appropriately sized. If there is a lot of downward barrel excursion at the breach face, the barrel will be much more prone to first shot fliers and/or inconsistent vertical stringing in the group. Taller (hole center to center) replacement barrel links are available, but they sometimes require 1911 gunsmith fitting and/or barrel/slide locking lug work to be used to full accuracy advantage.

    And then last but not least, with the empty pistol still cocked place the thumb of your off hand against the front of the hammer and very slowly pull the trigger. The trigger pull should be smooth, crisp and not gritty with only a barely negligible (if any) movement of the hammer to the rear. If the hammer moves markedly to the rear that means that you are also pulling against the hammer spring each time that you fire the pistol. Many manufacturer lawyer approved factory hammer sear slot angles are just not set correctly for light trigger pull precise shooting work. If the hammer movement to the rear is excessive, plan on either a 1911 gunsmith trigger/hammer tune up or new target replacement hammer with a more accuracy appropriate sear ledge angle.

    If you go through these procedures, your chances of getting a 1911 shooting lemon off the bat or something that cannot be redeemed by replacement parts and/or a gunsmith work over and $$$.$$ are greatly reduced.
  15. 40CalJoe

    40CalJoe New Member

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    I have found most guns are always more accurate than the person pulling the trigger. Find a gun, stick with it. 2 keys to developing good shooting skills are lots of range time, and maintain the weapon properly. The Springers I have owned are the most accurate pistols I own out to 25 yards. All of my Glocks are just as accurate as the Springer at 7 and 15 yards.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
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