Savage Sporter 23B .25/20

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by CountryGunsmith, Mar 2, 2003.

  1. Geoffrey B. Barker

    Geoffrey B. Barker New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Hello. I just registered to this TFF due to the interest I have in the subject matter I occassionallly see here. I also have a savage 23B. Bought it a year ago from a gun-guy who needed the money to buy a 41 mag revolver for deer. So now his Uncle Charlies rifle is with me in a good long term home. Bear with me as I hope to help / need help.

    Mine is about 80% and cleaned up real nice. Seriel # 563XX. Year made I don't know. This seriel # is on the round receiver right side between bolt slot and the chamber opening. Ref a earlier post, a number on the stock should match the receivers # but that stock number is not a guns legitimate seriel number. Now I just pulled off the buttplate and the stock butt and steel buttplate are stamped 55472 which is about 170 numbers after the receivers serial number!! --- DOES ANYONE know if savage could have made up stocks and later mounted to receivers with different numbers or could this be an after leaving factory swapout??

    The buttplate is smooth steel with a neat oval logo in middle of indian chief holding a rifle with words Savage, Quality, and Trade Mark in it. this is just to neat looking to be a repro.

    The walnut stock has the schenapel (spell) foreend.

    The clip is intact and orig. Marked on right side SAVAGE SPORTER and below it 25-20 OR 32-20. This clip protruds about 9/16" below bottom of trigger guard. Clip has about 1/2" stipplinging or dimples each side at base. (CAUTION - several years ago I bought 2 repro savage 23D 22 Hornet clips from Numrich/Gun Parts and both were imports and failed to feed without aggressive bending of springs to give "nose-up" cartridge force) The clip limits cart OAL to 1.60" or so so we are stuck with the short nosed bullets if clip feed is desired vs using the sleek pointed buillets for the other 25's. The orig clip is removed by pushing into the action and also pushing forward to clear the aft mounted clip lip There is no external lever or conventional release.

    Sights - beaded blade front dovetailed mounted to a screwed-to-barrel ramp.
    Rear sight missing and dovetail slot neatly filled in with lead. Anyone have/know of an orig rear sight for sale? I was told the early 99's were the same rear sight.

    This has a nifty but unmarked receiver sight on the left side. Mounted with two screws just behind and below the 25-20 stamping.

    Also mounted is a 3/4" black on brass tube scope that is unmarked. OAL 15 1/4". Might be 4X or so. No el/wind adj on scope body. Mount is marked WARDS TELESCOPE SIGHT MODEL 10 in 3 lines and has a lever to adjust vertical to clear the barrel sights as well as remove from gun as desired. Mount also has the el/wind adj external knobs on front mount ring. This mount sits in a dovetailed NEWTON marked base that is screwed to receiver. Taken together, the system looks real classy for an up to 100 yd or so rifle. ANYONE know what this scope system could be?

    Value? Irrelevant!. These old guns need good homes and want to be shot.
    Being a handloader thats whats coming up. This is the .25-20 which is the .25WCF, thanks to the CAS we have lots of products to choose from to handload with. Anyone know the twist rate or know of whether I should use cast or factory jacketed bullets as a starting point top get going?

    Thanks

    Jeff
  2. steve99f

    steve99f New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Eastern PA
    These are good rifle buys if you want a 25-20 or 32-20 chambered rifle. Generally accurate with factory ammo. I have a 23B and love it.

    As far as is known the stocks were not specifically numbered to the rifle as was done with the Savage 1899's and 99's. This is true for the Model 20 as well. The wood to metal fit wasn't as critical in the bolt guns presumably.

    Your butt plate and stock sound correct from your description. you magazine description indicates an earlier design. Later 23B and C have a mag that is rectangular in cross-section without the cheese grater.

    The scope mount may be a Mossberg.

    The rifle uses the bolt handle and one other lug for locking. And it a rear lock design. You'll get headspace problems by trying to make the 25-20 more than it is. YMMV.
  3. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    4,474
    Location:
    Goodyear, Arizona
    Old posts never die, They just keep going and going, just like that Pink Energizer bunny:)
  4. Geoffrey B. Barker

    Geoffrey B. Barker New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Thanks steve99f

    At home is a 1970's or so reprint of the Stoeger publication from 1939 that later became the Shooters Bible series. Therein I will look for the non-stnd sight manuf. and may find Mossberg. Mossberg did outfit their 22's with glass so maybe thats a good lead. Said pub has lots of Lyman and Marbles stuff ETC. and is a joy to use as research and in the gunshow backpack.

    Located a proper rear sight from an older gunsmith in Freeport Me. and sent payment today. He asked if it was the straight dovetail (it is) or if D.T. and one or two screws aft of the D.T so maybe he knows of variations. Someone told me it used the Savage 99 rear sight.

    I enjoy casting wheelwts for all my classics and was gonna tool up for the 25-20 with a Lyman cast system, but perhaps will start with the 60 gr SPFN factory bullet in a handload from Hornady and see how it groups. have lots of recipes from NRA and Handloader/ Rifle etc. Any idea of the twist rate? (Or i'll get the borebrush, cleaning rod, and measuring stick out) Is fast enough for the longer 86 gr bullets?

    I see this cart as the "first dedicated varmint" cart and apply as a up-to-100 yd chuck and crow gun.
    Thanks

    Jeff
  5. steve99f

    steve99f New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Eastern PA
    Jeff, those old pubs are a great resource if you have old guns you like to shoot. I have a couple of beat up Stoegers myself.

    I've shot jacketed and cast 85/86 grain bullets with pretty good accuracy. The 60 gr Hornady shot well using IMR 4227 and IMR 4198. Under 1 inch at 50 yards. The factory rounds shoot very well too. According to the Speer Manual the 25-20 has a twist rate of 1 in 14 inches.
  6. Geoffrey B. Barker

    Geoffrey B. Barker New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Steve - Thanks on the data. I am leaning towards the 60 gr bullet to get the vel up for varmint application and paper fun at 100 yds. That twist was probably in the Win 92?(to which this this cart was designed for) The 1:14 seems slow and may be better applied to the lighter bullets. So Ill start with the 60. Handloader has several issues that cover the 25-20 as well as a neat "bullet dia to weight to twist required" table to reference.

    The castbullet idea I put down due to working with the smallish 257 bullet and cost of gas checks with unknowns of the results in my barrel. also don´t expect to use the gun that much. Its sister 23D in 22 Hornet wears a Lyman 10X target spot glass and I rate it a 150 yd pleasant chuck gun.


    Jeff
  7. steve99f

    steve99f New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Eastern PA
    Jeff,

    That twist is the same as used for the 250-3000Sav. It will stabilize the heavier bullets. The shorter the better though.
  8. Geoffrey B. Barker

    Geoffrey B. Barker New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Hi Steve

    I agree with you on the scope. That Stoeger 1939 reprint shows it as a Mossberg "No.RF1 Automatic Range Finder Scope Sight, 4 Power $10.45". In the deccription is "Set the camplate on top of the scope so the two horizontal wires have the objective between them, the scope is set automatically for elevation". I see two access plates on top about 2 1/2" apart but there is a convertional cross hair inside with the wards mount having the Elev and wind. adj turrets. I have no idea how the cam plates work and hope to only have to use the turrets.

    My 23B is 1:14 twist based on several cleaning rod calulations. That chart I mentioned is for flat base round nose bullets. Using the chart, for .257" bullet dia and 1:14" indicates bullets should ideally be .70" to .72" OAL. Not having any 25WCF slugs here I presume the 86 gr is best (closer to this OAL bullet). I did mic a picture of a Hornady s 60 gr and I figure its about .465" OAL. If so the chart indicates a .257" slug .465" OAL is best in a 1:22" twist. I believe the pros would say the 1:14 would overstabilize but be OK as at the low vel of the cart the slug should not "fly apart". Bullets longer / heavier than .72" would start to be "inaccurate" due to understab in the 1:14". The bolt actioned 25WCF may be limited by the 86 gr being the longest avail with the other sleek bullets would be to long to fit in a magazine and / or protrude into the powder space.

    Do you have the OAL specs of the 86 gr and 75 gr bullets suited for the 25WCF so I can gin up a components order?

    For powder I am leaning to H4227. Hodg #26 (1992) "I think" may indicate that for a 86 gr X.Xgr H4227 is max for 1550fps in a 20" bbl. Going back to my Lyman #45 they show X.X gr I4227 for 1713 fps is the max. Both have the starting loads for load development.
    An article indicates the 86 gr is capable of just under 1800 fps. As well as being capable of up to 25000psi since it was develpoed after the black powder era. The H4227 is also best for my 22 Hornet.

    I look forward to shooting the .25 WCF, like the stock Hornet, at the modest but adequate vels it was designed for.

    Jeff
  9. steve99f

    steve99f New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Eastern PA
    Hi Jeff,

    I don't have OAL numbers specific to the 25-20. I do have a sheet for those 257 bullets I have or had. PM me your email and I'll send it to you. The Hornady 60 grainer measured 0.52 inches nominal.

    There is a formula for figuring out twist rate based on caliber, Greenhill's formula. Google that, you should find it.
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Questions on "Savage Sporter 25-20" Tuesday at 1:20 AM
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Savage Sporter 23B .25/20 Dec 7, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Savage Sporter 22 LR Feb 29, 2012
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum savage 110 sporter age and poss value Feb 8, 2012
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Need info on a Savage Sporter Sep 24, 2011

Share This Page