Say what, Live Free or Die.....

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by Shizamus, Jun 16, 2003.

  1. Shizamus

    Shizamus New Member

    Jun 27, 2001
    NASHUA - A city man faces up to $1,000 in fines and a year in jail after
    he was arrested for allegedly walking on a downtown street with a loaded
    gun concealed in a holster.
    Police arrested Peter Lachapelle, 29, of 89 ½ Pine St., after allegedly
    discovering a Colt .45-caliber semiautomatic concealed in a holster he
    was allegedly wearing on his hip, said police Sgt. Peter Bouchard. "It's
    a pretty good-size gun," said Bouchard.
    Officer Michael Fauteux stopped Lachapelle for questioning at the corner
    of Central and Ash streets about 8 p.m. after observing a completely
    closed holster on Lachapelle's hip, Bouchard said.
    When questioning Lachapelle about why he was carrying the weapon,
    Lachapelle allegedly told police that it was his "God-given right."
    New Hampshire law states a person 21 and older must have a license to
    carry a loaded concealed weapon.
    Because no part of the weapon was showing, and it was loaded, Lachapelle
    was arrested and charged with first offense carrying a concealed weapon
    without a license, a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail, a
    $1,000 fine, or both.
    A second offense of carrying a concealed weapon without a license is a
    Class B felony.
    Lachapelle was being held in the Nashua Police Department on Tuesday

  2. Zigzag2

    Zigzag2 Guest

    wait a minute Shiz, did you personally hear GOD give Peter Lachapelle permission to carry that concealed weapon without a permit? :D

  3. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

    May 5, 2003
    Shiz didn't say that God gave him the right. He said:

    Lachapelle ALLEGEDLY told police that it was his "God-given right."

    While Shiz sometimes puts out some pretty serious conspiracy-theory fare and can be a little over the top in my book, he appears to be reporting the incident pretty straight in this case.
  4. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    I consider all "rights" to be God-given.

    Man does not grant you any rights. He only takes them away. The only thing man can grant is "priveleges".
  5. moose_shooter

    moose_shooter New Member

    Mar 25, 2003
    Ok, if it was completly enclosed in a holster, how did the officer know he had a gun? ;) Profiling? Sounds like unreasonable search and siezure to me!
    Hum, I wonder what the effect on crime rates would be if citizens started wearing completly closed (but empty) holsters on their hips.
  6. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    moose_shooter, I had that same idea a while back. I was thinking that I should start carrying around a holster that would hold my cigarettes and lighter, or candy bars or something harmless. And see how much hassling I get from the police. Obviously they would want to stop me and check me out. But I wonder how many would try to charge me with some kind of crime. It would be interesting to see their made-up charges.
  7. Zigzag2

    Zigzag2 Guest

    JohnK3, the point I was making was Shiz's complete article and now followed up with 1952Snipers 'I consider all "rights" to be God-given' ... easily taken out of context.

    I was just pokin' fun... that's all. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
  8. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

    May 5, 2003 prob.


    I kinda like Sniper's idea: Wear a holster with NOTHING IN IT.

    See how far you can get wearing it.

    BTW, I applied for my GA CCW today. DeKalb County sure makes it tough: First, to the Probate Court in downtown Decatur to get the application, fill it out and pay $18. Then, take it to the Public Safety building about 3 miles away to pay a $5 fingerprint fee and a $24 GBI/FBI background check. In about 3-5 months, I should have my CCW.

    The things we have to endure, just to excercise our rights.
  9. Shizamus

    Shizamus New Member

    Jun 27, 2001
    The things we have to endure, just to excersise our rights.

    Should it be : just to excersise our privileges ?

    If we had rights we would not have to endure these things ? ;)

    Did you have to specify which firearm ?

  10. LewairLavell

    LewairLavell New Member

    Dec 17, 2002
    Houston, TX
    I wrote a long schpiel. Just background info/extraneous information that's not really relevant. Sorry if it's unappropriate but ahh well, I wrote it so I figure I'll post it. If you wanna just read the pertinate part skip to after the few asterisks.


    Well, a little known fact here in Texas at least....

    You have the right to say "NO, you CAN NOT search my person or my vehicle or my house, get a search warrant."

    I say all three of those things (person, vehicle, and home/property) but they really fall into separate categories for searching. Vehicles and person are treated different because they're mobile, therefore causing lack of preservation of a crime.

    Property is easy. You say "No, get a warrant." They have to get a warrant. They have to get evidence of some nature of a crime, take it before a judge and then they can come search at will. Pretty easy to avoid, cops have to really want to do it cause a judge is involved.

    Vehicles are a little different. In Texas, the only officer who can search your vehicle without probable cause is a game warden, again because of perservation of a crime due to mobility. Otherwise you have to give expressed consent to let them search the vehicle, which a lot of people do without realizing it. If you say no, and the officer is insistant on the search, most really they can do is get a dog out to go over the car on the exterior and hope for a hit that would give them probable cause to search the interior.

    Now I speak of property and vehicles when the topic is brought up about earching one's person, only to bring up the point of probable cause and give a little understanding as to how it would play in a matter as the original post's news story is about.

    To search your person, in Texas, you have to give consent to the officer and you have the right to have another officer present during the search. Unless they have probable cause, they can't search you without your concent, and you can always refuse search until a second officer is present. General probable cause for searching one's person; evading in any manner, sticking things in your pockets when they approach, not presenting valid IDs, any signs of intoxication, plus a few others I'm just not thinking of right now.


    Now, lets get to the guns. I think you'd all agree that if I took a completely opaque plastic and wrapped it around a pistol, so that the overall shape and features of it were still visible, strapped it to my hip and walked around, I'd probably get stopped without question. The gun isn't concealed.

    The question here is, if you can see the features of a gun underneath some sort of covering material, is it truely concealed? What does it take to 'conceal' a handgun? I'd personally think that if you have a holster shaped object strapped to your hip, it's probably a gun. If I were a cop, I'd definitely would be concerned that it might be a gun and stop you to check and make sure that if it is, it's legal. Then I'd probably discuss my opinions on the meaning of the word 'concealment' with you.

    A shoulder slug pistol case you wear under a jacket or shirt that gives the appearance of an individual not carrying anything or not having anything visibly strapped to them, I would think is by definition 'concealed'. Concealment imples they don't know you've got it. If it's on your hip, well it's obvious isn't it?

    Now, 1952Sniper, as far as the suggestion goes of strapping an empty holster on, I say this: You know you're asking for trouble. If I'm a cop and I stop you and you show me candy bars and smokes, I'm gonna give you shit for not buying a fannypack or a backpack to carry that in. Hell, get a purse :) . Don't waste the time of an officer looking for real trouble by giving him petty things to deal with. I find it interesting that I hear people coming up with silly ideas to waste a cops time then I hear people say cops don't spend enough time fighting real crime.

    What's the definition of concealment as applied to handguns?

    One other point too about the original post. If I'm not mistaken, the constitution says noting about the government being able to regulate or license the ownership of firearms. It simply gaurantees your right to have them. The gentleman in question didn't get arrested for having the firearm. He got arrested cause he didn't have the license. They are 2 completely different things.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2003
  11. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

    Jun 5, 2003
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posted by: JohnK3
    "BTW, I applied for my GA CCW today. DeKalb County sure makes it tough: First, to the Probate Court in downtown Decatur to get the application, fill it out and pay $18. Then, take it to the Public Safety building about 3 miles away to pay a $5 fingerprint fee and a $24 GBI/FBI background check. In about 3-5 months, I should have my CCW." to lazy to do it the normal way, and that way is annoying to me :D

    yeah that is gonna take anywhere from 1 to 6 months, in cobb its the same but, its 18+5 at one place and they are at the same spot, just 150 feet away to the finger print. Applied for mine a while back. Getting a gun takes some about 30 seconds for the background check to clear, mine takes at least 2 hours, never had anything on my record EVER!!! guess they look hard to make sure each time?

    whats the point of no more than 10 rounds? I could just carry more clips *shrugs* or use the rounds I have better. on the flip side why is it important to have more than 10? If you can't hit it in 10 rounds just give up, and if you get yourself into a rut where you need more than 20 rounds, you sould not have gotten into it... hehe

    *hugs LL* hehe breath of fresh air mate.
  12. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    Lewair Lavell, my idea of carrying an empty holster was in jest. I agree that it would just be asking for harrassment. Although it does raise a valid point about just exactly what authority an officer has to search you or detain you. Just because you're wearing a holster, does that automatically mean you're carrying a handgun? Is an empty holster considered "probably cause"?

    You also bring up a good point about the Game Warden thing here in Texas. Shizamus was kind enough to send me some disturbing informational videos on this kind of BS in Texas. Federal funding being used by a MJTF (multi-jurisdictional task forces), consisting of city police, highway patrols, Game Wardens, and federal investigators to perform random checkpoints along Texas highways in the name of "checking for seatbelt use". They bring the Game Warden along as an excuse to search your vehicle with no probable cause. It is harrassment of citizens and jack-booted thug mentality gone wild! It is blatantly unconstitutional and frightening, and is a misuse of power.
  13. LewairLavell

    LewairLavell New Member

    Dec 17, 2002
    Houston, TX
    At least it's not near as bad here in Texas as it was in Louisiana about 5 years ago. NBC's Dateline news crew even did a special report on the LA Highway Patrol. What they were finding out was that in LA, they would impound your vehicle after stopping you for no reason. Dateline got it all on tape, and I understand it's a little calmer now, but there are still isolated incidents that still occur. And I fear that since 9/11 these numbers are on the rise!
  14. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    One of my buddies in Houston has a sister who was on her way to Florida to buy a new boat. She brought cash with her to make the transaction. On I-10 in Louisiana, she was stopped for speeding. The police arrested her for having "too much money" in the car, and impounded her vehicle. They kept the cash.

    No proof, mind you, that anything was going on other than her being on her way to Florida to buy a boat. Apparently it's illegal in these United States to drive around with thousands of dollars in cash with you. You MUST be a drug dealer. And our beloved Federal Government allows, even encourages, this type of behavior to go on.
  15. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

    Jun 5, 2003
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    *does the taz thing*
    man that chaps my caboose
    but seriously whats the point of carrying 4 clips with 17 rounds+ a piece with your glock? does everyone find themselves in a John Woo flick on there jaunt home from work frequently?
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