Seeking information on German luger

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by selinz22, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. selinz22

    selinz22 New Member

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    I inherited this gun from my father who passed away in 20000. He was a Staff Sargent in WWII and acquired this gun from a German soldier who didn't need it anymore. What can you tell me about it? I have other pics that show detail.
    Thank you.

    Attached Files:

  2. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    Welcome to this forum.

    Your pistol is not a Luger. It is, as marked, a J P Shuer and Son that was comparable to the Walther PP/PPK pistols or Mauser HSC pistol. Your photos do not show the caliber marking; but many if not most were in 7.65 mm that was/is called .32ACP in the USA. Your pics show a box of .32 ACP ammo. {The .32 Short cartridges do nit fit it. They are for a revolver.}

    Your pistol appears to be in "Excellent" condition and will be sought after by WW II collectors, especially with its original holster.

    Hope this helps. This link gives more detailed info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauer_38H
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2012
  3. selinz22

    selinz22 New Member

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    Yes, it's a 7.65 mm. If you scroll to the right on the last pic you can see it. I don't know how to make the pictures smaller so you can see them in their entirety without scrolling. There are two clips, or magazines? with the gun. One is empty (in the gun) and the other is loaded with the .32 ACP ammo. Is there a way to tell when this gun was made?
  4. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    What is the marking on the front of the trigger guard, picture is too fuzzy to make it out. It looks like an Eagle, is there a letter such as a C or a number such as 37 with it??? Don't know, but I think the serial number is too high for a First Model . I think it is either a Second Military variation" Eagle 37 " or a Eagle C police acceptance model.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2012
  5. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    The holster is dated 1943. This is a first model. It was likely made at about the same time or more likely before the holster. Follow the link in post #2. Someone may have serial number production dates, but I do not.
  6. selinz22

    selinz22 New Member

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    The marking on the trigger guard is an eagle like the one under the serial number. But, instead of the letter "N" under the eagle, the one on the trigger guard has an "X" in what looks to be a circle with a "C" beside it.
  7. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    The Eagle N is the standard German Proof mark, the Eagle C on the trigger guard is the Police Acceptance Mark. I thought that looked more like a police holster than a military one. Don't know for sure, but with the two magazines, holster and the very nice condition the gun is in I think you have 1000 to 1200 dollars worth of gun, perhaps more. I would also say that 1943 is the likely date of manufacturer. However, If anyone has more valid or accurate information, please chime in.:) The 38-H has more variations than Carter has little liver pills.:)
  8. selinz22

    selinz22 New Member

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    Correction- the eagle is over a swastika with a C beside it- found the test mark description and picture on another site.
  9. selinz22

    selinz22 New Member

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    RJay- thanks for all the updates- by the way I was correcting myself with the eagle swastika C marking- not you. This gun does appear to be in excellent condition compared to the others I am finding. The holster is also interesting- it has the eagle over swastika mark over the words OTTO SINDEL BERLIN 1943. Thanks for your help so far:)
  10. selinz22

    selinz22 New Member

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  11. Lanrezac

    Lanrezac Active Member

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    There is an excellent article by Donald Simmons about the Sauer 38H in the 1983 "Gun Digest". It includes every variation of every feature. (These books are sometimes available for very little at used bookstores or on the Internet.) Aside from the very expensive book by Jim Cate, it is the best reference I know about the 38H.

    The website selinz22 refers to is useful, but some parts of it confuse me - for example, it gives a serial number range of 271,400 to 506,500 for the 38H, enough for 235,000 guns. Yet it says the German Army only took about 50,000, which sounds far too low.

    I realize there does not have to be a gun for each serial number, but I thought 200,000+ was accepted for Sauer 38H production, and non-Army 38Hs seem far too scarce to outnumber the Army examples by 3 to 1.

    Also, as Simmons' article makes clear, various features changed at various times, so dividing the pistols up into four simple categories (even for the German Army examples only) is misleading.

    I have a problem with the Wikipedia article too. It states that the 38H's grips are made of Bakelite, which I find very hard to believe. Bakelite is very durable - even in disposable stuff, like vacuum tube bases, it holds up very well over time. The article is correct in saying that 38H grips are often in poor condition, but I think it is because they are made of something quite inferior to Bakelite.

    Just my $.02!

    PS - rselinz22, in the excellent photos you provided, your pistol is cocked. You can un-cock it with the lever at the top front of the left grip. This is perfectly safe; in fact, before the German Army demanded changes, the decocking lever was the only manual safety the pistol had.

    You might want to unload the magazine too; this is done by pushing the cartridges out straight forward, in the direction the bullet is pointing. Only use your fingers for this, or something soft like the eraser end of a pencil. There is no mechanical harm in leaving the magazine loaded, but loaded magazines make dealers and policemen nervous.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  12. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    That is not a millitary pistol. The Eagle/N is the standard commercial proof mark; the Eagle/Swastika with the "C" is a police mark. Police pistols seem to be of higher value to collectors than military marked pistols, although with the 38H there seem to be more police than military pistols.

    Jim
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  13. selinz22

    selinz22 New Member

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    I thank you all for your replies and valuable information. The research into this gun has kept me at the computer "surfing" most of the weekend! This is the only gun I have ever had and really knew nothing about them.
    PS- thank you Lanrezac for the safety tip- I had no idea.
  14. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    Pull the slide back and make sure that the chamber is empty; if you have not done so already. No offense intended, but you seem new to and unfamiliar with pistols like this.
  15. Lanrezac

    Lanrezac Active Member

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    Glad to help - here is another good website with an article about the Sauer 38H:

    http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Sauer38/sauer38.html

    BTW, I am not an expert on such things, but I think your boxes of ammunition date back to the 1950's. The cartridges look in very good shape for their age.

    I am surprised to see Jim K say that there seem to be more police 38H's than military, but his experience is much greater than mine, so what he says goes.
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