Selling a non-C&R pistol by mail

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by broomhandle, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. broomhandle

    broomhandle New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    I currently have a C&R License. Can I sell by mail to a class 01 FFL holder a High Standard model 107 Tournament .22 Pistol made in 1968, as long as we exchange license copies ?
  2. ruger22com

    ruger22com New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
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    43
    You CANNOT legally ship via the USPS unless both YOU and the other person BOTH have a class 01 FFL.
  3. ruger22com

    ruger22com New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    Messages:
    43
    U.S. Postal Code:

    432 Mailability
    432.1 General
    The following conditions apply:

    a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as "handguns") are nonmailable in the domestic mail, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1.

    b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1 or 601.11.2.

    c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted, as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.2.

    d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 USC 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 432.2 b and c.



    Whoever knowingly deposits for mailing or delivery, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail according to the direction thereon, or at any place to which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any pistol, revolver, or firearm declared nonmailable by this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

    ALSO:
    Postal Explorer > Publication 52 - Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail > 4 Restricted Matter > 43 Firearms



    43 Firearms
    431 Definitions
    431.1 Firearm
    A firearm is defined as any device (including a starter gun) that is designed, or may readily be converted, to expel a projectile by an explosion, a spring, or other mechanical action, or by air or gas pressure with sufficient force to be used as a weapon.

    431.2 Handgun
    Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as handguns. The following definitions apply:

    a. Pistol or Revolver. A pistol or revolver is a handgun designed to be fired by the use of a single hand.

    b. Short-Barreled Rifle. A rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches long is defined as a short-barreled rifle. This includes any weapon made from a rifle (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.

    c. Short-Barreled Shotgun. A shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches long is defined as a short-barreled shotgun. This includes any weapon made from a shotgun (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.

    431.3 Antique Firearm
    An antique firearm (including one with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) is any firearm manufactured in or before 1898, or a replica of such a firearm, that meets either of the following conditions:

    a. It is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

    b. It uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available through commercial trade channels.



    431.4 Rifles and Shotguns
    A rifle is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 16 inches or more in length. A shotgun is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 18 inches or more in length. Rifles and shotguns have an overall length of 26 inches or greater and cannot be concealed on a person.

    431.5 Licensed Manufacturer or Licensed Dealer
    A manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer in firearms is one duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), U.S. Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968.

    432 Mailability
    432.1 General
    The following conditions apply:

    a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as "handguns") are nonmailable in the domestic mail, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1.

    b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1 or 601.11.2.

    c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted, as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.2.

    d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 USC 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 432.2 b and c.



    432.2 PS Form 1508
    PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.

    Exhibit 432.1

    Mailability Requirements for Firearms

    Handguns - e.g., pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person - are nonmailable UNLESS mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, or a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or government of a state, territory, or district, and ONLY when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties AND upon filing the required affidavit or certificate, as applicable (see DMM 601.11.1.3-11.1.7):
    433 Mailer Responsibility
    Even though certain types of firearms are permitted to be mailed within the provisions of the postal law in 18 USC 1715, it is the mailer's responsibility to comply with all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting the movement of firearms.

    434 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
    Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Mailers should be referred to the nearest regional ATF office for further advice (see AFT Online at www.atf.treas.gov).
  4. Joe W

    Joe W New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    SW Florida and Western N.C.
    SARGE, you are gonna get that Marine some brig time.

    You do not need a FFL to ship a handgun to a FFL holder if you ship via a contract carrier such as FedEx. They do require that handguns be shipped overnight. Figure it will cost you, with insurance, about $ 50.00. Semper Fi
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2007
  5. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,092
    Location:
    Indiana
    The only other advice I can give you is to go talk to your local Postmaster, they are the ones with the final authority. Do NOT take the firearm with you when you do, just ask at the desk to see him or her, and let him make the decision. Take your license, and the license you are shipping to, and ask politely for his "advice."

    Generally speaking, the answer will be "no."

    BUT, and here is the big but, IF the postmaster decides it IS a "Curio or Museum Quality," which is pretty BROAD, and definable only by, conveniently, you guessed it, the POSTMASTER, it MAY be allowed, IF your postmaster is an aggreeable, pro-gun, or at least 'Gun Neutral" in his politics.


    For example, a few years ago I sold an Astra 600, right after UPS went to the overnight, and back then it was "only" about $35, but still a rip off...

    The guy sent the $35 shipping, but before I sent it, I did the above, and actually got an appointment the "acting" postmaster foir the next day. The next day I showed up, with the licenses, and explained the situation, and asked if I could send it through the mails.

    He originally said "no," since I was not an actual "Dealer," with my CRFFL, but said it as he was going to get the regulation book to be sure...as he read, he found the "Museum Quality" provision and asked, 'Is it something you might find in a museum?" and I said, "Well, it was made in 1937, so that makes it Spanish Civil War era..." and he said, 'Good enough!" Bring it in packaged securely and make sure it's unloaded and we'll be ready for you!"

    The next day I bring it in, kind of tentatively, like I was doing something wrong, and the nice counter lady recognized me and loudly says, "Oh is that the gun we were told about?" I sheepishly said yes, and she grabs it and knowingly tells the guy next to her, "This is a REALLY old gun like you'd see in a MUSEUM!" )The postmaster must have given them a good heads-up!

    It cost me $8.00, INCLUDING insurance for $300, to ship it, and I sent a check for the difference BACK to the buyer directly who was tickled to death to save the extra $27! (I HATE people who try to make extra ;)money on "S/H,"!)
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