Shooting report on HBWC backward gascheck bullet in .38 spl

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Guest, Feb 24, 2003.

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    AGunguy
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 234
    (9/7/01 2:15:44 pm)
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    As per my shooting the AK 74 in the rifle post, we got rained out after 45 minutes of shooting.

    After shooting the AK 5.45 X 39 we managed to do some penetration test with the .38 special 5" barrel through some double sets of wet two by fours. The 2 X 4s had an air space between them of about 3/4 of an inch.

    The backward 148 grain hollow base wad cutter bullet with its deep cup gascheck worked to perfection as far as I could assertain. Bullet entry was normal size hole but upon entering the first board and on the second 2 X 4 it started opening up (creating a large flat meplat) it left the second 2 X 4 with an 2.5 inch exit hole showing a hell of a lot of damage to the wet wood. This was leaning against a 50 gal steel drum barrel and bullet in its expanded form punched through the barrel and got lost in the trash inside. Wish I could have recoverd the bullet but we got rain out.

    Now, the interesting aspect was the cartridges were only loaded to 875 fps velocity. Yet, I still consider this excellent entry and exit performance with this power factor. Inspection with the cylinder and barrel revealed no leading whats so ever and very slight burnt powder residue. This cartridge and bullet looks very promising and I have yet to test the hotter velocity loads in this same concept.

    I don't know if its legal these days to even use such bullets, but anyone using them would be very well armed with a mere .38 special. I would certainly like to test these loads on varmint animals. (non human of course) But sadly it is for the purpose of protection against an agressor who is human. This could well serve home defense folks and regular police dept personel...cop on the beat, not JBTs. But I am only deluding myself about that.

    There is still a lot of testing to be done on this concept and it looks very promising.

    Gunguy



    AntiqueDr
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    Posts: 775
    (9/7/01 2:19:56 pm)
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    Back before Hydra-Shok was bought by Federal, they loaded a very similar cartridge in .38 Spl. Their bullet had the post in the center of the hollow cavity. Awesome expansion out of a 2" revolver, but penetration was tricky.


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
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    AGunguy
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 236
    (9/7/01 5:27:12 pm)
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    How so on the penetration, was it finicky about being consistent in depth of penetration, perhaps the wrong kind of powder was used causing such irregular variables.

    I used 5.9 grains of AA No. 5 powder. Velocity was approximately 875 fps. Bullet was seated 1485 Overall Length, so it was positioned outside the case about 0.334 of an inch which put it well into the cylinder chamber throat.

    Entry hole into the 2 X 4s was normal size, so I know the bullets with the big hollow base open cavity were holding together well on their opening walls. I think this cartridge will hold together even if I exceed the velocity near 1,000 fps. But I really don't plan on testing it further than that. There is no need to when you get results like I've been fortunate to have obtained.

    GG

    Edited by: AGunguy at: 9/8/01 8:26:07 am

    AntiqueDr
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    Posts: 779
    (9/7/01 5:34:07 pm)
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    They marketed the load as the "Undercover" if I remember right (15 yrs ago!). The problem was bullets not holding together and underpenetration. This varied from lot to lot, so we began to suspect that some bullets were harder than others. The dynamics may have been altered by that post as well.

    Overall, though, better than RNL or SWC from the snubbies, especially since it was standard velocity.




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    kdubaz
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    Posts: 630
    (9/7/01 6:18:48 pm)
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    Gunguy -

    To my knowledge, there's no limitation on what type of projectile may be fired from a handgun. They had quite disturbing congressional hearings on the "Cop Killer" bullets some years back - the Winchester Black Talon bullet and those with teflon coating purported capable of defeating kevlar body armor. The products were withdrawn from the civilian market, then relabeled and brought back under different names or profiles. The slick coated bullets (Winchester, Barnes, etc) use some sort of baked on coating. The "petal" type bullet is used by all ammo manufacturers today - "buzzsaw" effect not withstanding!

    Your use of a hollow cavity nosed lead bullet, regardless of hardness of metal, is perfectly legal to shoot.
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    AntiqueDr
    Moderator
    Posts: 780
    (9/7/01 6:20:47 pm)
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    I do believe that bullets like the KTW and the Arcane were, in fact, legislated against.


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
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    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2206
    (9/7/01 6:31:55 pm)
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    Well some may have been scarey but the 5.45x39 Russian was a real winner and banned in it`s original design. This bullet was designed from the ground up as a killer of massive tissue and bone. Banned, through the human war rules but saw use in Afganistan. Built with a small hollow cavity towards the base, upon impact it caused the bullet to upset it`s spiral motion and tumble upon impact causing massive wounds and destruction. The Russians spent many years perfecting this design to overcome small caliber round effects. Millions were made, a bunch are still out there. This round was also used in the testing of the AK94................very mean machine....zero muzzle climb at full RPM`s.
    "am not" R2

    AGunguy
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 238
    (9/7/01 8:43:35 pm)
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    And I'm the proud owner of one soon to have a nifty scope on it. Viva 5.45X39, do your thing. What a screamer.

    Hey, I thought we was talking about HBWC backward bullet? Lol

    GG

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1890
    (9/8/01 11:14:04 am)
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    AGunGuy - and we all wish you a lot of happy shooting!
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