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SHOT Show bribery arrests

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by armedandsafe, Jan 22, 2010.

  1. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1920007620100120?type=marketsNews
    Pops
  2. Vladimir

    Vladimir New Member

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    I didn't have a chance the whole article... but felt I had to say it... Any gun show where it would be logical for foreign defense ministers to show up and purchase weapons, is a gun show I need to be at!
  3. Suicide*Ride

    Suicide*Ride New Member

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    Huh? 20% added to make the sale? Here in the U.S. it's called capitalism! While I'm not condoning what they allegedly did to sell some firearms, if in fact it is illegal, IMHO the FBI should be spending their time looking for the real bad guys!

    Two-and-a-half-year-long investigation involved 250 FBI agents?!!! I wonder how much of the tax payer's $$$ was spent making this bust? :mad:


    SR :mad:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  4. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    This has Obomba and the rest of his anti gun admin written all over it. Sounds like a reach to give arms and arms owners a bad name again.
    I don't trust these people in the least bit.
  5. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    I agree about not trusting them but if the investigation has in fact been going on two and a half years obozo had little or nothing to do with it.

    Ron
  6. artabr

    artabr New Member

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    I think the charges are B.S.
    If public officials like Mary Landriue & Ben Nelson can accept special deals from Harry Reid as members of Congress, why can't a private citizen make a business deal with a foreign government offical. Just my opinion.



    Art
  7. ARB

    ARB New Member

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    Some, might be singing a different tune if they actually named the country in Africa the undercover agent was supposed to be hailing from. Hey, wait! Isn't Somalia in Africa?
    And as Vladmir stated, that would have been a pretty cool gun show!
  8. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Member

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    The biggest and most expensive scam perpetrated by the feds yet.
    250 agents and 2.5 years to catch some guys doing what is normal business in "contracts".

    What will they do to Pelocy and Rheid and Dodd and all the others who have used their offices to broker sweetheart deals for friends and families.

    But this is normal practice in the contracting business world wide. If they are going to sting and prosecute our business people for this kind of thing then they put us even further behind the power curve in business. I'm not saying it is right, it is just the way things are and have been done as long as I can remember.

    If any of you out there have been a part of (brokering) deals you know there is a certain "dash" or money under the table that transpires in order for the deals to be made.

    Unbelievable! But true.

    UF
  9. ARB

    ARB New Member

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    It does seem a bit excessive for what it is. Like I said in my other post, I could understand if they were deliberately selling to some African warlord. But, that isn't even mentioned.
    It certainly cuts out the smaller businesses that may have a better product from competing if they can't shell out like the big boys. But, if a consumer wants a product that may be of lesser quality just to line his pockets, that's his/her problem. I don't know, I guess, maybe.
  10. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

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    It sounds like the issue in one case was inflating the price by 20% and then kicking it back to the person(s) doing the buying. That kind of stuff happens when the person doing the buying (a position of trust) is dirty. In this case it sounds like the person doing the selling was encouraging that type of behavior from the buyer. If it is true (because I have no trust in an Eric Holder justice department) then they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I was in a position of trust for many years (before I retired) and had a few occasions where people attempted to bribe me for favorable concessions. My answer was always the same and not repeatable here as I ushered them out the door and refused to do business again. The assumption that I was dirty like they were really PO'ed me.
  11. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR Active Member

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    The way the article reads is that the people doing the buying are the ones that wanted to add 20% to the contract and then from the 20% profit redistribute that amongst themselves. If the seller was getting a part of that kickback then things are a little dirty even though that could be claimed as a commission. But it doesn't seem to read that way. Seems that the profit stayed withing the buyers organization. The guy at S&W can bid it anyway he wants. It wasn't a bribe to sell these guns, the buyers requested it. Before Holder starts looking to US companies for bribing techniques maybe he ought to start looking at the people that work around him. Hell we've had Govt jobs come through here and they requested overs (extra's) up to 20% how it this any different? Are they saying that buy the request of the purchaser (govt agency) to up the price or in our case here up the qty that this is a type of bribe? I'd like to see the NRA or some non liberals news take on this.
  12. LurpyGeek

    LurpyGeek Active Member

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    The issue is that the bribery was directed towards what was thought to be a foreign official. U.S. agents want to make sure that bribery money stays in the U.S.
  13. JohnBrainard

    JohnBrainard New Member

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    It seems strange that they would do a sting operation like this. Who cares what Smith & Wesson sells their guns for and who cares what they mark up the cost and for what purposes?

    250 agents and two and a half years for this? They couldn't have used those agents to solve human trafficking crimes instead?

    And I want to know how the gun show is even related? Did they initiate the deal at the gun show? Or did they make the arrest at the gun show to give gun shows a bad name?
  14. artabr

    artabr New Member

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    Some of those charged were smaller businesses.

    http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/22276904/detail.html
    Comments in red added by me - Art

    # Daniel Alvirez, 32, and Lee Allen Tolleson, 25, the president and director of acquisitions and logistics at a company in Bull Shoals, Ark., that manufactures and sells law enforcement and military equipment.
    (Daniel Alvirez and Lee Allen Tolleson.
    http://www.alstechnologies.com/
    http://www.alstechnologies.com/index.php?page=company )


    # Helmie Ashiblie, 44, the vice president and founder of a company in Woodbridge, Va., that supplies tactical bags and other security-related articles for law enforcement agencies and governments worldwide.
    (Helmie Ashiblie sells LEO bags; got a profile on the company website
    http://www.ishot-inc.com/HTML 2006/index-about.html )


    # Andrew Bigelow, 40, the managing partner and director of government programs for a Sarasota, Fla., company that sells machine guns, grenade launchers and other small arms and accessories.
    (Andrew Bigelow's company sells Class III weapons
    http://www.machinegun.com/)



    # R. Patrick Caldwell, 61, and Stephen Gerard Giordanella, 50, the current and former chief executive officers of a Sunrise, Fla., company that designs and manufactures concealable and tactical body armor.

    # Yochanan R. Cohen, aka Yochi Cohen, 47, the chief executive officer of a San Francisco company that manufactures security equipment, including body armor and ballistic plates.

    # Haim Geri, 50, the president of a North Miami Beach, Fla., company that serves as a sales agent for companies in the law enforcement and military products industries.

    # Amaro Goncalves, 49, the vice president of sales for a Springfield, Mass., company that designs and manufactures firearms, firearm safety/security products, rifles, firearms systems and accessories
    ( V P of sales for S&W )

    # John Gregory Godsey, aka Greg Godsey, 37, and Mark Frederick Morales, 37, the owner and agent of a Decatur, Ga., company that sells ammunition and other law enforcement and military equipment

    # Saul Mishkin, 38, the owner and chief executive officer of an Aventura, Fla., company that sells law enforcement and military equipment.

    # John M. Mushriqui, 28, and Jeana Mushriqui, 30, the director of international development and general counsel/U.S. manager of an Upper Darby, Penn., company that manufactures and exports bulletproof vests and other law enforcement and military equipment.

    # David R. Painter, 56, and Lee M. Wares, 43, the chairman and director of a United Kingdom company that markets armored vehicles.

    # Pankesh Patel, 43, the managing director of a United Kingdom company that acts as sales agent for companies in the law enforcement and military products industries

    # Ofer Paz, 50, the president and chief executive officer of an Israeli company that acts as sales agent for companies in the law enforcement and military products industries
    (Ofer Paz
    http://www.isds.co.il/eng/about_us.htm )


    # Jonathan M. Spiller, 58, the owner and president of a Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla., company that markets and sells law enforcement and military equipment.
    ( his company sells LEO gear.
    http://www.hatch-corp.com/ )


    # Israel Weisler, aka Wayne Weisler, 63, and Michael Sachs, 66, owners and co-chief executive officers of a Stearns, Ky., company that designs, manufactures and sells armor products, including body armor.
    (Israel Weisler is the president of US Calvery.
    http://www.uscav.com/ )


    # John Benson Wier III, 46, the president of a St. Petersburg, Fla., company that sells tactical and ballistic equipment.
    (Weir is VP of SRT Supply
    http://www.srtestore.com/about.aspx )





    Art
  15. dianalv

    dianalv New Member

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    The Shot Show is not your ordinary gun show. It's a trade show where arms manufacturers meet with retailers and do their year's business. I've attended every show that's been in Las Vegas with the exception of this one as both press (writing for a state publication) and as an industry participant involved with hunter recruitment of women and hunter education. For most of that time, the show has not been open to the public, but only to those in the industry. For a few years they allowed access to the general public but had problems related to that and returned this year to being open strictly to industry professionals.

    Every arms manufacturer in the world can be found there, and all hunting/firearms related manufacturers as well as outfitters and so on and so on. It's a huge show. They debut their new products just like any trade show for any industry.

    I'm kinda shocked that most of you seem to be okay with the practice of kickbacks/bribes, whether it be with foreign governments or with small business every where. I was involved in a business where kickbacks were routine and aggressively sought. I always refused to pay them. I figured my work was good enough if they wanted to hire me they would. If not, someone more honest would. I never felt good ripping off the client in order to get a job. I'm glad they are cracking down on the "good ol' boy" network and practice of kickbacks, especially with governments where the ultimate victims are the people being "represented."
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