Shotgun for home defense

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    GroovyTed1
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (9/10/02 9:25:20 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del All Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi all,

    I'm pretty new here, and I've noticed several posts that mentioned a shotgun as the weapon of choice for home protection. So, I was interested in a little more information on the subject. For example, what gauge do people use? Manufacturer? What type of load?

    Anyways, let me know what you think.

    -gt

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 4674
    (9/10/02 11:35:15 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 can both be bought in defender versions or made into them. Short barrel and open chokes for close range. Smaller shot has more pellets in it and will not penetrate walls and possibly danger others.


    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2696
    (9/10/02 11:37:53 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi Ted. Welcome to TFF!

    ......and to answer your other question, on the theory that "bigger is better", most people opt for 12 ga.

    Edited by: Xracer at: 9/10/02 12:39:16 pm

    GroovyTed1
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (9/10/02 5:11:30 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks, guys...

    X - Here is something you wrote on another similar thread:

    "At home....a short barrel 12 guage pump shotgun. "

    What does "short barrel" mean? 18"? When I went to the store, and told the clerk I was interested in a short barrel shot gun - and did he carry anything like that, he looked at me like I was a psycho. Pretty much killed the conversation with that one.

    I did like the 18" gun (overall about 36" or so), but it was light, and I wonder how far it would knock me over when I fire it.... Unfortunately, I can't go rent one at my local range, because they only allow .22 rifles.

    Dang it.

    -gt

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 4679
    (9/10/02 7:34:50 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    They don't kick that bad. If the recoil does bother you then just shoot lighter loads. If you are a big person then load it up with a 3 inch magnum and blast away.

    Myself I don't like the barrels so short. I get nervous with my fingers that close to the muzzle when it goes off. A pistol grip makes holding and handling them easier but it is really a personal preferance. There are also choices as to what stock you can put on it.


    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 6056
    (9/10/02 8:19:47 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GT, WELCOME!!

    Ah, the scattergun. Many variables here.
    Stock/No Stock
    Pump/Auto and then the always overlooked

    SIDE BY SIDE...aka DOUBLE BARREL


    Best home loads, Field loads/low brass shells, from #8`s to #6`s.......I prefer #8`, just my preference....cheap and can be bought anywhere....or #7-1/2`s.

    I prefer a stock over a pistol grip, so a folder might work too.

    Ask away, we gots boatloads of shotgunners and a tarnished , oops "PATINA" covered ole Win97 operator here somewhere...LTS


    Edited by: LIKTOSHOOT at: 9/10/02 10:48:48 pm

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3074
    (9/10/02 8:44:38 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If recoil is an issue, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 20ga as a home defense shotgun.

    Dont be lured by the compactness of the pistol grip shotguns like the Mossberg Cruiser. The lack of a shoulder stock really emphasizes the recoil and they take a LOT of practice to hit with. Remember that at typical home defense ranges the shotgun pattern will not be wider than a few inches. The old myth about not having to aim is NOT true.

    A good 20ga multi-shot shotgun (whichever action type you are comfortable with), loaded with field loads, will serve nicely. Then you need to determine lanes of fire within your home - and, more importantly, where the no-fire zones are. Unless you are well trained in the tactics of house-clearing, it is best to wait in ambush.
    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson

    needleace
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 182
    (9/10/02 8:45:31 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Warpig's named the most popular two. Both the Remington and the Mossberg are the proper choices for the home defense, it just depends what you are willing to spend. In the gunshop in Little Rock, last week, the Remington 870 came in at $319 and the Mossberg 500 Persuader had a price of $139, which I thought was a steal. Both are good products, coming from the people with whom I've talked. I am in the market for a Mossberg and will probably pick it up my next trip into Little Rock.
    The M500P usuallly comes in around $189. Winchester also
    has one out, but the one price I saw was more than these two.
    -ace

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 4689
    (9/10/02 8:57:22 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I forgot about the 20 gauge and the SxS

    What about that one Benelli makes that can be fired in pump action mode or semi-auto. Would probably be to much to hassle with in an emergency.


    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 501
    (9/10/02 9:24:27 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Make & Model: Rem 870 or Mossberg 500. Twin action bars win out over the single used by most other mfgs. These two are (arguably) the best available for defensive use by civilians.

    Gauge: 12. 3" magnums are not necessarily the best, although, I use one. (1) they kick harder and are harder to control for repeat shots/multiple targets; (2) see my note below. Don't do ANYTHING voluntarily that might possibly prejudice a jury.

    BBL: 26 with Improved Cyl or Cyl Bore. Leave the short barrel stuff to LEO's and the "face paint and camo" crowd.

    Shot: #2 up to and including BB.

    Shoot for the face/head. You ain't playin' patty-cake. Your mission, if you must shoot, is to STOP the perps from doing whatever they are doing as fast as possible. Killing them is a separate issue. You want them to STOP all offensive action INSTANTLY regardless of whether they live or die. A face/head shot is extremely effective at effecting this end.

    Either of the above-named weapons, configured and loaded as stated, will do a straight-forward job on anybody who is stupid enough to put you in the position of having to use them.

    Remember: If you must use the weapon to shoot someone, there is always a significant possibility that you might be prosecuted for the shooting criminally AND/OR that you might be sued in civil court. For this reason a home defense shotgun should NOT be (1) black; (2) have a short barrel; (3) have a pistol grip; (4) a bayonet lug; (5) an extension or hi-cap magazine; or (6) anything else that makes it look like anything other than a plain-vanilla hunting shotgun.

    If you have to shoot someone, then do it with a HUNTING STYLE weapon AND ammo that 'bout anybody on any eventual jury can identify with. Military-looking stuff is an absolute no-no for home/personal defense for civilians.

    If you want to look macho, that's one thing. If, however, you wish to defend yourself from the perp AND defend your assets/wages from THE COURTS, then that is another matter entirely.

    These are just my not-so-humble opinions. You asked for 'em. I am sure there are those who will disagree with me.

    I readily admit that there are choices available that MIGHT be VERY SLIGHTLY better (buckshot instead of #2, for example), however, my choices are designed to take into consideration what MIGHT happen to you in the courts AFTER a shooting. You give up almost nothing by doing this, and you could gain a great deal in the aftermath.

    I sho' would hate to have to give some AH's widow half my wages for the rest of my life.

    Yeah, and I would REALLY hate to be the poor slob breakin' through a window in my home that took a load of #2's or BB's in the face outta either of these weapons.

    -- ND





    nighthawksh
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 167
    (9/10/02 9:30:21 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thought I'd throw in my .02 cents worth,, I keep a Winchester Defender 12 Ga, with 18" barrel, holds 7 rounds (3") beside my bedstand. It is loaded with 2 rounds of # 6, then 5 rounds of double-ought buck. I figure if the first 2 don't stop the "intrusion" then I don't care if I blow down a wall or two. I want to stop the intrusion!

    footnote: there is only my wife and myself at home, so no danger of hitting someone else in the house, except the bad guys.

    also, just in case, my ol' trusty Colt Commander is in the nightstand, with 4 mags, full with Winchester SXT rounds.
    Stan H ,, nighthawk

    bullelk
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 294
    (9/10/02 9:32:14 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I guess I might just as well get my two cents in here too. But, I won't confuse the issue.

    Mostly, everyones right, but I will bring up a couple of points.

    You can kill with a 20 ga just as well as a 12. Just use a 3'' mag. The 20's are more comfortable to shoot.

    I don't care for a SxS for the simple reason you have to keep it loaded and it makes for a dangerous situation leaving one loaded around the house. Sometimes people get confused with the safety.

    I know someone is going to criticize me for saying to keep it loaded, but what are you going to do in a tense situation, look for the shells and try to load them in the dark?

    I myself keep a Rem. 870, 12 ga and I keep the magazine loaded with 4 rounds (You can always opt for an extended magazine up to 7 rounds). I have the the action closed with the firing pin down and the safety on.
    All you have to do is crank the pump and that sound alone will scare the shit out of anyone.

    As far as the load goes, the majority of the time it will be used at very close range (I would say around 10 to 20 feet in a close situation) so 6's, 7's and 8's will do fine. Anything after that, they'll probably be outside anyway. That's where your 45 auto should come in handy.

    Warpig, that Benelli is one costly gun and pretty big too. But a hell of a shotgun. I have a M1 Super 90 tactical myself, with an extended magazine.

    Good Luck, and welcome to TFF



    Edited by: bullelk at: 9/10/02 10:45:41 pm

    teehee1
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 276
    (9/11/02 12:52:51 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mossberg is the best value for the money. If it is still made get a 500ATP Combo. It (used) to come with an 18" bbl cyl bore, 28" vent bbl with changeable chokes, the regular shoulder stock and also a pistol grip. This is a very versitile package. When I sold them they were about $220.

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1057
    (9/11/02 12:57:01 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, time for one more opinion I guess.

    In addition to the Kahr K40 I keep at arms reach, I have a Mossberg 500AE 12 gauge "available" for use. First two shells up the magazine are 2 3/4 inch 00 buck. These are followed by two 2 3/4 inch #4 buck, and the last one is a 3" mag #6. As I don't do much small game hunting any more (except spring turkey), I keep my slug (deer) barrel on it all the time. Even though the magazine is loaded, I keep the chamber unloaded. I figure if I have to resort to using the shotgun, I want ANY intruder to know that when I operate the action on that shotgun he is in for some SERIOUS trouble.

    Before resorting to the use of a weapon in self defense, even within the confines of your own home, you must remember that you must be in immediate fear of death or serious bodily injury to yourself or others within your household before using lethal force.

    But FIRST AND FOREMOST GroovyTed1 (and this is probably more important than possession of any firearm you may choose to use for self defense), if you are forced into a situation where you MUST brandish a weapon
    DO NOT HESITATE TO USE IT!!!


    You must put yourself into the mind set that if you draw a weapon in self defense, you WILL be prepared to use it without hesitation. None of this TV drama stuff where the person with the weapon says: "Don't take one more step or I'll shoot". That crap is for Hollywood. If you are involved in a potential lethal situation within your home, there is only one command you need to give - STOP, or I'll shoot. Any movement by the perpetrator after that, as long as you are in fear for your life, gets him the results of squeezing the trigger on what ever weapon you are armed with. Too many people wind up getting shot with their own weapon because they hesitate and keep repeating that "Don't take one more step or I'll shoot" crap, as a perpetrator just walks up to them and takes their weapon away from them. GIVE BUT ONE COMMAND, THEN LET YOUR WEAPON SPEAK FOR YOU (if circumstances warrant).

    And don't forget, use of deadly force OUTSIDE the home is seldom ever warranted. In any confrontation outside the home you normally have a means of avoidance.









    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2704
    (9/11/02 12:12:16 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yep Ted......by a short shotgun I meant an 18" barrel....easier to manage in a hallway or other restricted space.

    I'd also recommend 12 ga. and smaller than buckshot.....less chance of penetrating walls and injuring innocents. Don't worry about recoil. If you have to use it "for real" you'll never feel the recoil.

    I like the Mossberg 500 as the most "bang for the buck".

    nighthawksh
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 168
    (9/11/02 1:13:03 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ruffitt, some outstanding advice,,,

    fortunitly, here in Washington state, if a person has actually broken into your home (in MOST cases, not all) the authoritys generally accept the fact of the intrusions as being a "threat to life or safety" and thus, lethal force is justified. The law can be very vague at times, but generally favors the person defending home and property. I know, every state is different! That is why it is imperative that every citizen be knowledgeable of their local laws.
    I adhere to the old adage; Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    again, ruffitt, you gave some very sound advice!
    Stan H ,, nighthawk

    GroovyTed1
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (9/12/02 1:20:40 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks to all for all the great info! This was very helpful... I'm ever so excited - too bad I have to wait a few months to save up

    -gt

    russelldehart
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (9/19/02 10:32:18 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Shotgun
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have a Remington 870 Express 12 Gauge (18" barrel) loaded w/ 3" 00 Buck. If I lived in an apartment I would probably opt for something like a #2 or #4 shot to protect my neighbors from stray pellets. I might even go with a 20 guage insted of a 12 since it still has plenty of power at CQ distances (1.5 to 7 yards).

    Also, get some training. Instructor lead training is far superior to videos and books, but self-defense shotgun courses are not very common outside of law enforcement. You might find a a handgun instructor or cop who would be willing to give you some instruction on the side. If that's not viable take a handgun self-defense course. The mechanics will be different, but many of the same concepts can be applied to the shotgun (i.e use of cover, gun handling safety, etc.). If it matters I had a cop I use to work with teach me the fundementals of pistol and shotgun use in self-defense.

    Finally, pick up a copy of Gunsite Academy's "Tactical Shotgun" video and Gabe Suarez's book, I think its simply called "Tactial Shotgun". These last two are great resources, but are no substitute for instructor lead training.



    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1077
    (9/20/02 1:32:16 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks for the input and recommendations, russelldehart. You are right that instructor provided training is better than "home study" via vidio or book learnin'.

    Welcome to The Firearms Forum, undoubtedly the best firearms forum on the internet. Hope you become a regular here.

    Regards








    JackRyann
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (9/20/02 9:39:41 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I keep the 12 with a full mag and the action open. Safety on.
    The first shell in the mag is bird shot like others have recomended. If I need more than that I want the job done as quick as possible so the rest are all #4 buck.

    Inside or out I'm ready to go.
    Rem 870, 18 inch slug barrell extended mag. I use the same gun all year. Deer rabbits, turkey or crows. Any varmit gets in front of this weapon is gonna have a bad day.
    Kill it and Grill, yeah! I love animals. They're tasty!

    Edited by: JackRyann at: 9/20/02 10:40:29 pm

    deadeye006
    Member
    Posts: 34
    (10/6/02 10:29:15 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del a
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Welcome, GT!

    Another important fact concerning home defense that hasn't been mentioned is:

    If the situation allows, CALL THE POLICE before you get into the action. #1, if you do happen to kill or injure the intruder and end up in court, the fact that you called the police will persuade everybody that you really were in a situation that needed lethal force in order to survive. #2, if the intruder is armed to the teeth, the police will be there soon to back you up!

    When in court, DO NOT say, "I thought he was going to kill me!" Big mistake. Nobody cares what you THINK. They care about what you physically SAW and HEARD. Instead say, "It looked as if he was going to kill me!"

    hung41584
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (10/14/02 2:27:51 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del SHOTGUN???????????????? ARE YOU NUTS????????
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Deleated due to foul language.


    Please, if you wish to post on this board anymore, drop the foul language.

    Edited by: Bob In St Louis at: 10/14/02 6:51:30 am

    JackRyann
    Member
    Posts: 29
    (10/14/02 3:20:16 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: SHOTGUN???????????????? ARE YOU NUTS????????
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wow, now that sounds like a well reasoned and informed opinion. I'll have to keep that one in mind.

    I wonder what advice a dimwitted low life thief might offer if he were to wonder across this thread while searching the web for a suitable scam, only to find his potential victims discussing shotguns.
    Grill it and kill it! Or some thing like that.

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3094
    (10/14/02 6:39:29 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: SHOTGUN???????????????? ARE YOU NUTS????????
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sorry if Jack's response doesn't make sense, but I deleated the original post immediately above his because it was mostly a string of foul language.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    Edited by: Bob In St Louis at: 10/14/02 7:40:53 am

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4439
    (10/14/02 6:41:11 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Shotgun for home defense
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks Bob...

    JackRyann
    Member
    Posts: 32
    (10/15/02 12:48:36 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Bob.....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks for keeping a cool head. Somebody's got to.

    Ballistic
    Member
    Posts: 34
    (12/18/02 8:42:43 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Why no black shotguns?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    the shottgun i am going to purchase for self-defense, but mainly fun is the Bennelli M1 Practical! with a 9 shell capacity i dont think anyone wants to try and break into my home!

    also and im not gunna load it with lethal rounds, why take the chance of killing someone? instead id rather hit them once or twice with anti-riot rounds and then handcuff them and wait for the police... that way there is no chance of getting into legal problems...

    Edited by: Ballistic at: 12/19/02 1:36:50 pm
  2. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Alabama's Gulf Coast
    I think you will find 12 gauge pump shotguns to be the most popular...Remington 870, Mossberg 500/590, Winchester 1200/1300 and Maverick 88s predominating...I have a Winchester 1300 made for Turkey hunting (that way a prosecuting attorney would have a hard time convincing a grand jury that I was a trigger happy vigilante with a "Combat Shotgun")
  3. wpage

    wpage Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,482
    Agreed to go with the standards of 12 ga Rem 870, Moss 500's Win 12-13's
    Keep em somewhat stock. Extend the mag tube get the 18.5 slug barrel. Your set for HD.
    IF the DA holds it up for the court. Wont look like the terminators's.
  4. Oneida Steve

    Oneida Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,083
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    It must be Vampire Week ... this time it's a post from 2003 being brought back from the dead. :D
  5. ofitg

    ofitg Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,446
    Several years ago I bought a rifled barrel for my Mossberg 500, and I couldn't resist the temptation to try some shot loads through the thing.
    The patterns were about four times wider than the patterns from a smoothbore barrel - roughly one foot wide at a distance of ten feet, compared with 2 or 3 inches wide for a smoothbore slug barrel.

    It occurred to me that this might be useful for home defense scenarios.
  6. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,642
    Location:
    Indiana
    Unplated lead 00 buck will also spread pretty wildly if fired through an extra-full choke (like a turkey choke).
  7. wpage

    wpage Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,482
    Lots of guys use them for this purpose.

    Saves on cutting down barrels!
  8. ofitg

    ofitg Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,446
    It was my observation that while the rifled barrel produced a much wider pattern, the pellets were not evenly distributed within the pattern. This was especially true for 00B buckshot - the pellets were distributed around the outside of the pattern, with no hits in the center of the pattern.
    Number 4 buckshot was somewhat better, still not perfect, but at least there were a few hits in the center area of the pattern.
  9. pops42

    pops42 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    232
    Location:
    high up on the blue ridge mountains of Va.
    i like my rem.870 express pump with 00alt buck is the one i prefer, my wife does to, couse when you here that pump load there aint no mistaken what it is and it will do what you need it to .out of all my guns that is about all the gun is used for. pops42
  10. wpage

    wpage Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,482
    Here is a 870 set for HD

    Attached Files:

    • 002.jpg
      002.jpg
      File size:
      62.2 KB
      Views:
      5,669
    • 004.jpg
      004.jpg
      File size:
      64.6 KB
      Views:
      4,023
  11. JamesV

    JamesV New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    I was once told by a police officer that in a home envasion if you have to use deadly force make sure your story is the only one told.
  12. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    269
    That 870 is "better" than mine only inasmuch as you've found the right front sling swivel. Otherwise, I vastly prefer mine, because it has the Knoxx recoil absorbing stock. I think that bandolier could pose a serious problem if it got wedged in the way somehow. The tube holds more than plenty to settle any indoor situation.
    I load mine with 5 rounds of Winchester 3" Mag. 00 buck in the 4 dram equivalent. I could not use this load, if not for the Knoxx stock, and what a monster! 15 .36" balls @ almost 1,400 fps. If a man forces me to use this against him, we are finished talking!
    [​IMG]
    I believe that a sling is a very good idea, because it moves the gun to be accessible, but your hands remain free. I saw one that was set up with a streamlight, built into the forend, and that might be a good idea. The big thing is to have a really big gun, and keep it as simple as you can.
    It is also a supremely good idea to have a cell phone readily accessible, and call 911 before any confrontation begins. This will get the cops rolling, and the recording may well save your bacon in court.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  13. AngelDeville

    AngelDeville New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    ABQ
    18 1/4" barreled Rem 1100
  14. whirley

    whirley Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    547
    REMEMBER THIS------If deadly force is necessary, and the perpetrator survives, he can sue you for everything including your eyeteeth in civil court.
    In many jurisdictions, the police are NOT YOUR FRIEND UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES. When the police arrive meet them UNARMED with a corpse, then KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT UNTIL YOU HAVE YOUR ATTORNEY PRESENT. You are NOT REQUIRED TO MAKE ANY STATEMENT UNLESS YOUR ATTORNEY IS PRESENT. STAND MUTE, It's Your RIGHT!! The future well being of you and your family demand it.
  15. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    Kentucky
    this is what i currently have.

    870 with a pistol grip

    i have a replacement full length stock that im working on, the pistol grip is just doing temporary duty

    Attached Files:

Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Self Defense Tactics & Weapons Best home-defense shotgun for a tall guy? Apr 1, 2014
Self Defense Tactics & Weapons How do you store your home defense shotgun? May 9, 2011
Self Defense Tactics & Weapons home defense shotgun Jun 3, 2009
Self Defense Tactics & Weapons Interesting test results using different shotgun loads in home defense scenario Feb 8, 2009
Self Defense Tactics & Weapons Barrel Length for Home Defense Shotgun Mar 29, 2008

Share This Page