Should we go back to the 1911?

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by Pistolenschutze, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. armabill

    armabill Member

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  2. bmac1911

    bmac1911 New Member

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    wait - was that "yes" to me?

    or was it a "yes" the answer the question of the topic?
  3. armabill

    armabill Member

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    The answer to the question of the topic.
  4. Jay

    Jay New Member

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    I don't know what the military is gonna do, but I've carried a 1911 style pistol for over 30 years. I don't have to go back to a 1911, 'cause I never left.
  5. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs.
    Not in a program. Good info. Glad to hear the AF is attempting to use a scientific method on the selection (unless it's the method used for yalls new uniform!! lol no offense ours sucks too..."a little good at everything but not really good at any one thing") I have peers still at building 4 and I dunno that the pistol program is serious now. It's kinda unsettling how much they have on the plate.

    I've noticed a trend with equipment lately...lots of things are "transitional". The emerging philosophy is that a decent tool now is better than a great tool next week...if that sounds like a spin off Gen Patton you're right. So things that change will probably just change again again again sooner than later anyway. As far as the Army is concerned pistols aren't exactly on many peoples priority...so there's not tons of attention there (which explains why the Army is so wishywashy about it...now let it be a new rifle and they will hijack the whole program)

    Also...believe it or not the 92 has loyal fans. Not me...but I know a few when their mags ain't failing lol

    Anyway, I do think eventually there will be a change in service sidearms and congrats on being part of it. My last tour I had a USP .45...it was bulky and to get training ammo we had to trade/lateral transfer 5.56 to alphabet agencies in BIAP. I'd vote, by instinct, for a single stack .45...I like .45 more out of being loyal and hardheaded and it's an American caliber...I've seen 9mm work just fine and it's cheaper/lighter etc...but it ain't .45...my .02 cents.

    P.S. yeah trainees stink...but try teaching a class of 240 of em in July lol
  6. Dakota Red 1

    Dakota Red 1 New Member

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    My last tour I had a USP .45...it was bulky [/QUOTE]

    But the USP serves its purpose...it gets you into the Sports Oasis or the Liberty PX.:)(gotta be healed to behold over there) But yah, they're a big chunk. There was sometimes better-than-ball ammo for trade. The steroid stooges down in the IZ were a source. [I really did see a motorcycle with an MG42 (or Yugo. equivalent) mounted on the front of the sidecar when we were down burning run-flat rubber off the suburbans at Crossed Sabres one time. There was also this east-euro dude, hung around the Green Bean on Victory with his skank. Had a tokarev in a holster, looks like he made it out of his old boots. Thank GOD I'm American! BackHawk-Leg Drop-Serpa] Our training ball for the M9s (loose pack) had about ten different head stamps per handfull...if you could read it under the green, fuzzy coating (thats called verdigris dear and very desirable on Tiffany lamps) Don't dare limp-wrist that stuff. Be shucking and jiving all day. Could get boxes of clean Israeli stuff sometimes from ****. Africaaners love Israeli stuff. But our 9mm carry ammo, the good stuff, Soultaker, didn't we get that from you guys? And the flash-bangs?
    Let's talk holsters/carry. Thats a pretty big issue for pistoleers. Besides, I don't want to talk about the time the Fillipino escort about greased me while showing off his Tariq. Would rather be shot with something more high-class.
  7. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs.
    9mm from us? I dunno. Supply sergeants are the same everywhere so I'd believe it's possible but I dunno why for 9mm...most any ASP/AHA should have that on hand. One time I seen an anchor...like a big iron thing ya know, get ordered because an incorrect NSN or DODIC number got sent or something. Anything those supply guys do now don't shock me.

    I couldn't guess where you got flashbangs if not from a normal channel or lateral transfer or somebody left it sitting lol Was yours M84s, "1-bang", M7290s, or? Did you need them? Ya know you can totally give your buddies PTSD if ya drop one a few meters behind the porta-potties lol

    Holsters...in uniform I prefer on strong side thigh just above my cargo pocket(on my belt is in my way in vehicles and I noticed anything on your hip makes you prone to scraping walls...I hate putting a sidearm on my vest because if I'm gonna hall-a**/E&E then I pretty much know I'm gonna toss the vest, minus my aid kit/radio so I can sprint/swim etc...and my carbine ammo is on my lower left torso and my lower right/shooting side stays clean, so I don't like breaking a cardinal rule to be lazy either)

    For a 92 prolly Safariland fitted holsters is best I used in my opinion(bought at a PX). For 1911, H&K or Sig, I can vouch for Blackhawk...I've always been in units that bought their stuff and I still have my Omega stuff and it's not much worse for wear. That's my brand preferences, but really most kit is as good as the next, ya just gotta see which ya like the fit/retention styles...I've been long accustomed to Blackhawk, it's easy to replace too, so I don't see changing.
  8. Dakota Red 1

    Dakota Red 1 New Member

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    Our scrounger got the flashbangs(M84s), hand to hand, from somebody who lived south of Red Socks road. We tried to think of some scenarios whith them (get the boss out of a long meeting) but they probably all hit the amnesty box on the way out. I checked and our commercial 9mm was pass back, with about 3 different attributions, the one I heard...Uncle Ned via APO, Santa Claus...but good ball was tight for us. When the pass back stuff got shop worn, I filled up on the Israeli stuff.
    I liked the minimalist CQC holster from Blackhawk for our mission. It never gave any problems but wouldn't be the choice for IMT in dirty conditions. Their leg drop platform was compfy. Any of the new stuff is better than being stuck as a lefty with RH only holsters. (.45s back in the day) ...or having the current issue holster. I think if they go with a new pistol they should put a lot of thought into carry. I was not in a unit where we always get to roll our own, and some day we'll be stuck with issue like we were in '02.
  9. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs.
    I see...shows how things are different in places and how things keep changing...we prolly had a quad-con at any time full of 9mm but had to wiggle out .45 from where ever. One time we had to sit and wait for enough TNT to drive up from Kuwait to properly process some captured caches lol

    M84s are good. Easy to get in trouble with but good lol If you want the NSN for the 12 pack lemme know so next time you can get em legit lol

    So you're wrong-handed huh? The duty issue holster prolly best if you're worried about IMT in dirt/sand, ironically, but honestly ya know all your stuff is gonna get saturated with grit if you IMT very far anyway....IMHO. I like drop holsters a lot...the only real complaint I have is they pose a leverage problem for you in a hostile retention situation because it's so below your center of gravity. Not a huge worry but a real one.
  10. dogngun

    dogngun New Member

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    I was in the Army when the 1911A1 was the service pistol, and at the time, a lot of people hated it. It was NOT the popular pistol in civilian life it has become since it was espoused by Jeff Cooper, nor was the .45 ACP considered the greatest as it lately has become. It was considered obsolete and difficult to master.
    Most pistol users back in those days (late 1960's) very much wanted exactly what we have now-a high capacity 9mm TDA pistol that was accurate and reliable
    I doubt we will ever return either to the .45 ACP or the SA pistol.

    I have to tell you that the first centerfire pistol I bought when I left the Army was a WWII issue Remington Rand 1911A1. IT came with a box of ammo and cost me all of $170.
    Today, I have 2 9mm TDA pistols and 2 1911's in .45 ACP- and a whole lot of revolvers.

    I doubt seriously that this question will ever be settled "once and for all"
    but it's always a good thread if no one gets mad about it.

    mark
  11. Dakota Red 1

    Dakota Red 1 New Member

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    Thats why I like some active retention on the holster. First time Top saw me prancing about with that serpa holster on my thigh, he jumped me an tried to snatch my pistol; couldn't figure out the button. So we drilled 'retention ready' with drawn wpn, and retention w/ holstered wpn. If the wpn is suitably locked in the holster, you have both arms free for scrapping. Inevitably, you wind up in a gaggle of those happy, friendly people who are milling around and messing with your desire to keep your firing-side hip away from them. With the right holster, you don't have to worry about providing one of them a wpn. Let those two bruisers you posted as security pull you out.
    Long ago I switched to left-handedness with hand guns. I'm right-eyed and use long guns on the right side. Transitioning from primary to secondary armament is like a sweet, incense filled dream. Cut the pie R or L from a strong side, etc.
    I think they ought to go with a plastic holster, something you can quickly shove your drive-on rag through and its clean and dry...spent a lot of time with my little friend rusting away in soggy nylon or leather; one, well engineered condition of retention; maybe a removable flap(although fitted holsters do well at excluding crap from all but the grips/hammer area); and separate holsters for R or L hand firers. I mean they have berets in how many colors and sizes?
  12. Recon 173

    Recon 173 Member

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    NO. I think that a Sig P-220 in .45 caliber would be better for the troops. I have 2 1911s and one P-220. Both of the 1911s have broken down at least once each but my Sig has had zero problems. Besides, the Sig gives a guy a choice of single action or double action shooting and I like having options in critical situations.
  13. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    i've not been in the military, so cant speak of experience... im just an average shooter, i've owned a 1911... and i would say without a doubt that it is an excellent weapon. i own a glock... and it 2 is excellent... i've never shot an M9 however, so i cannot compair that gun, but i can compair cartridges... and i would say that the 45 is far superiour to the 9mm in most ways. the only disadvantage is that the 9 is so widely used throughout the world. i personally cannot think of a more american gun than the 1911, nor can i think of a better choice for the us military.

    ~john
  14. Crazylegs74

    Crazylegs74 New Member

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    Hmm.. Should we go back to the greatest combat pistol of all time? DEFINATELY!!
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