Silencer questions

Discussion in 'Informational & Technical Archives' started by ruffitt, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt *TFF Admin Staff* In Heaven Now

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    rip87
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (6/12/02 8:17:32 pm)
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    Hello everyone,

    I've been trying to solve an old murder case for over twenty years. While it's been "officially" solved since 1974, many questions still remain.

    A guy killed his entire family (mom, dad, two brothers, and two sisters) using a .35 Marlin hunting rifle. All victims were found in their beds, and one victim was even on a different floor.

    After the conviction, even the prosecuting attorney wondered how none of the victims appeared to have woken up.

    Here's my question...

    If a silencer had been used, would there have been any edivence to indicate it?

    All I can think of is possible markings on the outside of the barrel.

    Thanks for your time.







    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 4936
    (6/12/02 8:32:52 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Silencer questions
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    In order for a rifle of that size caliber or any for
    that matter, the barrel would have to be threaded
    at the muzzle to accomidate the suppressor and
    the front site would need to be removed for threading
    and propper fit of the suppressor.

    Also, the suppressor itself would be rather large in
    lenth too.

    Try posting your question here subguns.biggerhammer.net/mgmsg.cgi
    there are many knowledgeable folks who can
    give you more details than I can on supressors.

    But don't forget to come back to TFF too!

    Welcome Aboard rip87!
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    Ken GFA
    Member
    Posts: 37
    (6/12/02 9:27:02 pm)
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    You can make your own silencer by taping a plastic bottle,jug Etc. to the end of the barrel but it only works once,so that means u would need more then 1 plastic jug.I have other thoughts but......
    good luck on your case.


    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5100
    (6/12/02 9:27:23 pm)
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    Not enough information to answer this one, would need a lot more in the way of what was found concerning the bodies. It could be done very easily without a suppressor. Best LTS


    ps/ the above will not work on a large caliber rifle or pistol, it simply blows the end out and has no reduction in sound.

    Edited by: LIKTOSHOOT at: 6/12/02 10:30:45 pm

    Chief 101
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 126
    (6/12/02 9:38:41 pm)
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    uh.......I tried that taped on bottle trick......with a .22. the sound was different(kinda like a shot in a plastic bottle!?!) but it was just as loud as without it......
    Very funny Scotty, Now beam down my clothes.

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2724
    (6/12/02 10:12:55 pm)
    | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Silencer questions
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    The suppressor theory is extremely unlikely given the murder weapon. Any evidence of contact wounds or use of heavily padded cushions to muffle the shot?

    I once made call where five individuals inside the same house were killed with a .30-06. Perp used folded couch cushions...


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson

    rip87
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (6/12/02 10:54:07 pm)
    | Edit | Del Re: Silencer questions
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    Thanks for the replies!

    Tac401...thanks for the welcome!

    LIKTOSHOOT...can you elaborate on how it could have been done very easily?

    AntiqueDr...I don't believe there was any mention of contact wounds.

    Here is some additional info according to the official report...

    The killer shot his parents in their bed (two shots each into their backs). He crossed a hall, and killed his youngest sister with one shot into her face. She had just awoken, and gunshot residue was found on her face and eyes. He then went to the next room and stood between his younger brothers, and shot each one once in the back.

    He then went up to the third floor, where he killed the oldest sister by shooting her once in the back of the neck.

    From what I know (which is very minimal), a .35 Marlin rifle could hold a maximum of seven bullets. He would have used all seven bullets on the second floor alone.

    So, not only would the sister on the third floor had to have slept through seven rifle blasts, he would have had to reloaded before killing her.

    One last bit of info...when the rifle was recovered (under water), it had two bullets in it, and was cocked.

    Thanks again to you all!



    gpostal
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2173
    (6/12/02 11:06:59 pm)
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    in order for a gun to be suppressed the ammo must also be sub-sonic {even in the plastic bottle ken } as doc said due to the caliber used I doubt if a silencer would have been affective , most .35 cal rifle ammo starts at 2100 fps and go up from there , for a silencer to have been used he would have had to use special loaded sub-sonic ammo , even if the silencer was a plastic 2 litter bottle {which they didn't make back then} , or a pvc silencer held on by hose clamp or other method , duct tape, etc. the ammo would have had to been modified , docs theory of couch cushion would have left residue on the cushion




    a guy pulled of six successful shots with out anyone jumping up , could be pulled off very easy ,if the situation was right , say during a storm
    mom and dad had to be first to go , then others might not have really been able or willing to get up and run into a room they heard a gun shot in

    and did this happen to occur on 11-13-74 at 3:15 am by none other than Ronald DeFeo ??????????

    rip87
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (6/12/02 11:20:25 pm)
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    gpostal,

    It was indeed Ronnie DeFeo Jr., and it was on 11-13-74...but I'm not so sure about 3:15.

    The 3:15 is one of many potential inaccuracies.

    I'd be very interested in any ideas or theories you might have.

    This case has been driving me nuts since I was in the eighth grade!

    Thanks for responding!



    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5101
    (6/13/02 7:03:02 am)
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    Ok, I`ll play long. What were the ages of all the victims and a basic layout of the house?? LTS

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3688
    (6/13/02 7:29:31 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Silencer questions
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    Maybe they were deaf or wearing earplugs
    "I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE SOME REPORTERS PAWING THROUGH OUR PAPERS. WE ARE THE PRESIDENT." - Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2295
    (6/13/02 8:48:57 am)
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    Hi rip87.....and Welcome to TFF. Do you mean a Marlin lever-action in .35 Remington? I've shot these, and that's a pretty noisy gun. I don't believe that even a silencer would quiet the sound enough so that it wouldn't wake the entire household.

    I don't believe that a silencer would leave any marks on the bullet, but even a "clamp-on" silencer would probably leave some scratches or marks on the end of the barrel.

    I believe that even if a pillow or couch cushion had been used, there would be evidence of that...feathers, foam rubber, cushion stuffing....near where the shooting took place, and possibly minute particles in the wounds.

    Fascinating subject.......what's your theory?

    Different name
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2146
    (6/13/02 9:28:27 am)
    | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Silencer questions
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    You guys are sidalin upta to some deadends....

    This typa carrynon might need the
    attenchun of "Dick Tracy"......

    Charlie D
    Sherlock Holmes??? Anyone?
    Note:
    Rip87, WELCOME to T F F
    Edgar Allen Poe iz wher itz at!
    Enjoy!

    Edited by: Different name at: 6/13/02 10:31:14 am

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2728
    (6/13/02 9:33:18 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Silencer questions
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    I believe we have progressed past the point of Techinal Questions and Information, and have entered the realm of General Discussion. I will be moving this post to that forum where it will receive wider attention.
    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson

    gpostal
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2175
    (6/13/02 10:02:37 am)
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    remember way back when Nicole Simpson was first killed they said one man couldn't have done it , the wounds were to deep and one man couldn't have held one of them while stabbing the other ? ,

    {of course no one ever mentioned oj had once made it to the worlds strongest man contest but that's another story}

    now getting to defoe , I don't see the problem with the question of how it could have been actually done ,it could have been done very easily , it was obviously a well thought out plan ,carried out very methodical {I don't believe the possession crap for a second}

    if the reloading is a stopping question ,that's simple , you don't have to empty a lever action gun to reload it , he could have had extra ammo in his hand or pocket and reloaded as he walked from room to room, no stopping

    like I stated above ,{if the situation was right , say during a storm
    mom and dad had to be first to go , then others might not have really been able or willing to get up and run into a room they heard a gun shot in}

    given that Ronald defoe ,really was in a state of mind that he wanted to kill his family , he would have done it as quickly as possible , so no second thought or chit chat would occur , no question it could have happened as fast as it would take to walk swiftly through out the house ,loading as he walked , rip if you are really bent with the subject and will be able to rest upon a coming sense conclusion for yourself try a few test

    test one :find or make a layout of the aprox size of the home , walk quickly through out and re-enact it while being timed

    test two : now your about thirty years old so you have some buddies you can make test subject without fear of giving them a heart attack , try it maybe on your next camping trip , with out anyone's knowledge set of a few fire crackers and time how long it would take them to react at 3:00 am
    , even though a child wouldn't react as fast as a adult, I would lay money the walking and shooting time would have taken half the time as the reaction time

    this is one case that I feel was solved in 1974 ,no question or magic bullet about it , defoe is still alive and in prison for 150 years , if there were any supernatural powers we would have heard from him by now
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