Son of God

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by Bobitis, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    or not?

    Jesus was born from the Immaculate conception. In my mind, that would make him half god, half human.

    Why do some call him God? He's clearly not.

    Discuss please.
  2. ka64

    ka64 Well-Known Member

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    Can God sit at his own right hand?
  3. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    I would think not. Someone else could, but that does not make the someone equal.
  4. BlackEagle

    BlackEagle Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Understanding the idea of a triune God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) means that the Son of God can indeed sit at the right hand of God the Father. Psalm 110:1 uses that phrase:
    and it gets quoted in the New Testament in each of the Gospels, when Jesus was talking to the Jews about who He is.

    Peter also used this phrase when he was addressing the Jews in Acts 2 starting verse 14, and Hebrews 1 uses the phrase in describing Christ's role.


    Sounds like some of my university and post grad exam questions! :eek::D

    I never thought about that before, but I suppose that would make him genetically half human, half God, which is consistant with Scripture: he was God made Man; One place in the Bible calls Jesus "Emmanuel", or"God with us". The idea is that God sent His Son to be with us, in a human body, as a human, to live with us, among us, to be hit with all the things a human can be hit with (temptation, blisters, headaches, hunger, pain, happiness, laughter, sadness, etc.) yet without falling for the temptations we fall for.

    Hebrews 4:15 says it better than I can:
    Verses 14 and 16, and Hebrews 5 are pretty good on this subject also.

    I don't generally get into extended discussions, and I abhore theological arguments and will not get caught up in them. I do enjoy answering honest questions. Yours is a good question, Bob. I may come back with something more later.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  5. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    Excellent response.

    It just seems to me that sitting at the right hand isn't quite as good (not that the Christ isn't good). It's more like Jesus was/is a tool to get ta know the true God.
    Please don't get all bunched up with 'tool' referance. It's NOT a trolling term.

    The presumption that Jesus was a child of God does not make him an equal to the Almighty. My son is not my equal. He's half me, and half his mom. He will never be me.
  6. BlackEagle

    BlackEagle Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I don't think you are not the trolling type, Bob. :)

    Jesus Himself said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me" in John 14:6.

    I will never be my dad's equal, and my children will never be my equal. I agree completely. However, only Jesus was able to say "I and the Father are one" when he was talking with the Jews in John 10:30, and the Jews immediately tried to stone him because they understood him to mean he is God.

    Understanding the Trinity is not easy, but it holds the key to understanding why Jesus could say that He is God.

    I'm happy to keep answering questions; just won't be able to answer all, and will have to take a break sometime soon. I'm at least 5 hours ahead of you here. :)
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  7. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    'Jesus Himself said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me" in John 14:6'.

    ^This is exactly why I brought up the discussion. ^

    Jesus is clearly the subordinate. So why do some claim he is God?
  8. BlackEagle

    BlackEagle Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    One of the ones who claim he is God is Jesus himself, when He said "I and the Father are one."

    Scholars have written large hard-to understand books about the Trinity, but simply stated it is something like "three persons in one being" and "one being in three persons". Because it is God we are talking about, there is no easy human analogy to compare it with. All three (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are one. I think understanding that will go a long way to answering your question.

    Not fair, Bob; you're making me have to think. I can feel the wheels trying hard to turn...please be patient, I'll try to come up with answers; perhaps someone else will kick in with some ideas. It's been a while...I may be able to come up with a book or two to recommend--not the scholarly tomes but something humans can read. I think CS Lewis might have written something. ;)
  9. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    In the Trinitarian view, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost share the one essence, substance or being. The central and crucial affirmation of Christian faith is that there is one savior, God, and one salvation, manifest in Jesus Christ, to which there is access only because of the Holy Spirit. The God of the Old Testament is still the same as the God of the New. In Christianity, statements about a single God are intended to distinguish the Hebraic understanding from the polytheistic view, which see divine power as shared by several beings, beings which can and do disagree and have conflicts with each other.

    There are a number of passages and teaching in The Good Book that show us that Christ God and the Holy Spirit are one , maybe with my physic's background i see it simpler than most , for me its no problem to see Christ God and the Holy Spirit as part of each other and as part of the whole at the same time , but multiversial theory is something i'm getting good at
  10. One Shot

    One Shot Active Member

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    When I read "The Shack" it had me shaking my head and wondering if I should be reading it at all but in the end and in retrospect, I think it did a good job of explaining God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in non-theological terms.

    The Black Lady had me going for awhile but it does work out in the end so read it all.

    It is great to ask about things that don't make sense to you. Being a seeker is a good place to be in God's eyes.
  11. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    Bob,

    The Trinity is one of the hardest concepts to wrap your head around. In fact it's impossible for our mortal minds to understand the immortal. That is something the believer accepts on faith because God said it, and that settles it.

    You know I guess I didn't pay close enough attention back in the church where I received my early Christian education because it wasn't well into adulthood that I realized that the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ existed eternally as a seperate person from God the father. I understood that Jesus was God, but didn't realize there was a Son, until Christ was born on earth.

    I have questions myself. For example if God is a spirit, what is the difference between God the father and the Holy Spirit? If Christ existed eternally as a seperate person of the Holy Trinity, how is it that He can be the Son of God, and what was the distinction between the two? I mean, how Can the Father and the Son have both always existed?

    When I dwell on these things for too long I must admit my mortal mind starts to lead toward disbelief. It is then that I have to consider the even harder to accept concept of existence without a creator, then also to simply read the Words of Christ Himself that convinces me He is who He said He was. People acknowledge and scripture confirms that Jesus was a good man. Would a truly good man be a liar?

    It is my firm belief that someday all our questions will be answered, one way or another.
  12. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I think a lot of the problem with understanding the Trinity lies in the language we are accustomed to using.

    This being who we acknowledge as the supreme power in the universe, we call "God".

    Jesus calls his father "God".

    And confusion sets in.

    "God" is the being.

    Jesus Christ is one facet - one office - of that being.
    The Father is another facet or office of that being.
    The Holy Ghost is the third facet or office of that being.

    Equate it to this:

    I am a human being named "Terry".

    Now forgive me for speaking of myself in the third person, which is something I HATE, but necessare for this example.

    Terry is a Pastor.
    Terry is an Engineer.
    Terry is a Husband.

    Is the Pastor only 1/3 of Terry?
    Is the Husband the same as the Engineer?
    Is Terry greater than the Engineer?

    Do you see it?
    Terry is the being -
    the Pastor, the Engineer, the Husband, are the three FACETS or OFFICES of Terry.

    So God is the being we are dealing with.
    God the Son, Jesus, is one facet of that being.
    God the Father is another facet of that being.
    God the Holy Ghost is another facet of that being.

    Each of the offices is different than the other two, yet each is God.

    The Trinity is one of the most difficult concepts with which we deal, IMHO, Bob -
  13. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I agree Terry.
    We are limited in our understanding & knowledge. This makes certain topics very difficult to discuss. Our carnal minds just have difficulty grasping things of the SPIRIT.

    This is why Faith is so important. In some things we must place our TRUST in his word. There are many, MANY scriptures that support the Trinity and that claim Jesus & God to be one; not the list of these is John 1:1-
    We also see in the book of Philippians that Jesus did not see "equality with God as something that could be grasp.


    But at the same time Jesus said that "HE" and the "FATHER" are one.

    Though we must take some things by FAITH & not understanding, I don't think this is a difficult thing to comprehend; "IF" we look at it through the "SPIRIT".

    These things are NOT meant for the "carnal" mind to understand.

    -
  14. BlackEagle

    BlackEagle Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Bob, from what Terry and others are saying, and from what the Bible says, can you accept that Jesus is God?

    That's the first step.

    Thanks for asking the original question. It's a good discussion.
  15. ryan42

    ryan42 New Member

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    hey Bill I know a fella who would like to be in this discussion,His name is Roy Blackwood do you know of him?:)
  16. Python

    Python Former Guest

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    Genesis 1:26..Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness". Note US & OUR= Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
  17. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    He is absolutely God.
  18. BlackEagle

    BlackEagle Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I believe we've met on occasion.:)
    To my understanding he would be a good resource. Just a minor detail: he doesn't do computers. ;)
  19. Archie

    Archie Member

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    The "Jesus isn't God" claim or argument is a very old heresy.

    It dates from just after the Ascension of Jesus and has continued to the present.

    One of the arguments is as you presented; if Jesus is half human and half Divine, then Jesus is a demi-god, much as Hercules and others of the Greek and Roman pantheon. This is based on a misconception: Jesus had no human father. And no, his human mother doesn't really apply to the argument either; God caused the pregnancy through a supernatural action; Jesus was not the result of anything close to a normal inception. (Or abnormal, like Zeus as a swan inseminating Leda.)

    Jesus is completely human and completely Divine. While on Earth, He surrendered His Divine power and relied upon God - we call the Father - for all His needs. Jesus was subservient to the Father as that was the pre-arranged plan. And even that phrase is limited - the plan was Eternal; God exists not in time but in Eternity.

    When Jesus talked with the Pharisees, He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." (John (Gospel) 8:58) This phrase "I AM" is the same phrase used by God to identify Himself to Pharoah through Moses. It is the Hebrew spelling of the unspoken name of God. That's why the Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus immediately; by their standards, He claimed to be God.

    Later in the New Testament, Paul in Romans (ch 1, the first paragraph) identified Jesus as (verse 3) "...concerning his Son who was a descendant of David with reference to the flesh, 1:4 who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord." The Resurrection demonstrates Jesus' Godhood.

    The Old Testament speaks of the Triune God. There is the 'Father' God in Heaven who is spirit, then there is the 'Physical' God who walks in the Garden of Eden and wrestles Jacob; then there is the 'Spirit of God' who descended on the prophets from time to time. All God, all markedly different 'persons'.

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2012
  20. H-D

    H-D Active Member

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    I was raised a oneness pentacostal, and have been to many other denominations over the years I have heard countless arguements about the godhead, I was on the debate team at school qt debated the godhead regularly, I had all the students and 1 teacher stumped by the vast amount of trinitarian scripture in the bible but I don't pretend to be able to comprehend the mysteries of Godliness ,
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012

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