Soviet rifle of my dad's

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Wolf 5.7, May 21, 2011.

  1. Wolf 5.7

    Wolf 5.7 New Member

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    Hello all,

    I have a rifle of my father's which we have no clue what it is. He claims it was a soviet sniper rifle from world war two. He traded a boat for it to a Japanese guy. Enough of the anecdotes. To me, it looks like a carbine, perhaps a m44 maybe? It has some rust on it, but the majority of the bluing is still there, say 95% or so. The bolt works great, but I do not know if it fires, as I cannot verify the caliber. The trap on the bottom is tight but works (Is this for loading ammo or cleaning?) There is some minor damage or the wood on the stock, from where it has sat for over 20 years. The butt of the rifle is in good shape, aside from some minor discoloration on the plate. It looks to be missing the sling. There is a scratch that is on the screw of the bolt. I cannot see any rifling, the barrel is dirty, and there is a little bit of rust at the end of the barrel. There are several triangles with a 1 running through the center of the triangle engraved on various metal pieces. There is a hammer and sickle insignia engraved right before the rear sights. It is dated 1937. The weapon is approximately 40 & 7/8 inches long. The barrel width is 5/8 of a inch in diameter. The barrel length is 25" from the muzzle to the end of the bolt.
    Oh and no import stamp if that is worth anything.

    I have attached a zip file with photographs and here are some extra images

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    If that didn't work the images are here http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/200/20110521012130.jpg/
  2. TRAP55

    TRAP55 Active Member

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    Mosin Nagant Model 91/30 that someone cut the stock down to hunt with. Caliber is 7.62x54R Russian.
  3. Wolf 5.7

    Wolf 5.7 New Member

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    Wow thanks for the lightning fast reply Trap55. Is this worth anything? Should I have it fully restored and how much would that cost ball park? Or should I just take it to a competent gunsmith, have it cleaned and oiled, and keep it as a deer hunter/plinker? Is it a carbine? From what I have seen of Nagant's the barrels are very large.

    2 more quick questions. Does it take a magazine/clip in the bottom? Or can I load multiple rounds in it?
    Last edited: May 21, 2011
  4. permafrost

    permafrost Active Member

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    Probably not worth taking to a 'smith unless it's something very rare(unlikely)
    I would disassemble ,use Hoppe's #9 and some #oooo Extra fine steel wool to remove the rust. usually won't hurt any remaining blue. They load from the top with a stripper clip(5 Rd.), easy to find on the net cheap. Or you can load them singly. Make sure the rim of each additional cartridge is ahead of the one below it for proper feeding. Clean bore well. They're usually very dirty and sometimes pitted from use of corrosive ammo without cleaning properly. Pitting,if present doesn't necessarily mean they won't shoot well.Could make a dandy deer rifle or a fun plinker. Surplus ammo is still relatively cheap on the net, and can be shipped to your door. Fix it up and enjoy a fine old rifle!
  5. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    You can buy them for 69.99 to 89.00 most places. But enjoy it anyhow!
  6. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Wolf 5.7,
    Welcome to the forum.
    The interesting part of this tale, to me anyway, is the trade your Dad made with the Japanese guy. Where did the trade occur?...in U.S. or Japan or elsewhere?
    MN 91/30s without import marks are, in my experience anyway, quite scarce. The market has been flooded with imports over the past 10 to 12 years - most coming into the U.S. from former Soviet satellite states (Ukraine, Bylorus, Georgia, etc) where they were stockpiled in the '50s and '60s, awaiting the next onslaught on Mother Russia from the Western Allies. The shop where I used to work, had by 2010, sold well over 7,000 of them. In one year 2009, that one shop sold over 1400 individual pieces. That is why the prices are so low. Current RETAIL value of a "sporterized" MN 91/30 is around $60 to $70 - depending upon markings - collectors look for scarce items, even cut down stocks, and make them righteous/correct by stripping a common piece of its furniture.
  7. permafrost

    permafrost Active Member

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    Jim ,any idea of its value with no import mark, if someone restored it?
  8. TRAP55

    TRAP55 Active Member

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    Early round receiver, no import markings, made at the Izhevsk Arsenal. "IF" that trade was made in Japan, it could have been a Japanese capture from the Russian/Jap war. With providence, it would be worth something.
    As is, with the stock cut, it may cost more than it's worth to restore. You need a stock, bands, band retainers, and a cleaning rod.
    Clean it up, shoot it, and enjoy it. Surplus ammo is cheap( about $0.18 a round), soft point hunting ammo is available pretty cheap too. The round is no wimp in power, falls between the .308Win and 30/06. A lot of the surplus has a steel core and/or a bi-metal jacket. A lot of penetration, and you have to be careful shooting in areas with dry grass and rocks, they will start fires.
    Barrel length is to long for a M-38 or M44 carbine.
    Here's a few variations by country:
    http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRef01.htm
  9. Wolf 5.7

    Wolf 5.7 New Member

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    Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it. As for the rest of the story the guy dad bought it from was a japanese soldier. As my dad flew in WWII (p-38s) this fellow and dad had been in the same aea of operations. SO they got talking war stories as all old soldiers do, and offered dad the rifle and $500.00 for a old fishing boat. Well since the 2 happiest days of a boat owners life are when they buy the boat and sell it, dad agreed. He had paid 300 for the boat anyways. Dad still gets a letter from the gentleman from time to time. My father is still alive and doing well, but I do not know if the japanese soldier is or not. From what my dad says this Japanese guy did pick it up off a sniper or soldier he had killed.

    Neat story anyways and thank you all again.
  10. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Russo-Japanese War was in the 1903-05 time period - too early for that piece stamped 1937.
    There were apparently some skirmishes between Japanese troops and Russian border guards during the Japanese occupation of Manchuria in the late 1930's through the end of the 2nd WWar in 1945, perhaps it was one of the skirmishes during which the Japanese soldier liberated the Mosin????? If I'm not mistaken, Russian troops "accepted" the surrender of many of the Japanese forces in Manchuria and North Eastern China/Korea during the closing weeks of August '45.

    I have seen several highly collectible MN rifles. Three brought in by a "customer" were exceptional. One was a French made (Chateauleroi, sp.) Model 91 dated 1892 (sold for over $500), and two were early turn of the century Imperial marked 91's (sold for over $350). I've also seen a very few non-import marked pieces from the 1930's - they sold for around $250.
    It would not be costly to "reconvert" your sporter - simply find and buy a current import, which is a complete restoration kit, strip the furniture off and put it on the non-import piece. Finding one from the same year or near years should not be difficult. Total cost around $100 plus your time. Put the sporterized furniture on the purchased piece and you have a $250 "original/correct" piece and a $65 Sporter.
    If you go this route - look for proof marks and date stamps on the bottom rear of your non-import piece - it's possible it was a rework of an older Imperial piece - but that is doubtful since 1937 was pretty far removed from the Soviet rearming/Czarist forces removal campaigns in the mid 1920's.
    Last edited: May 21, 2011
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