Spanish Civil War

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 609
    (6/29/01 6:53:52 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del All Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have recently encountered several references to US troops involved in the Spanish Civil War in the late 1930s. One reference was the movie "My Dog Skip" (sappy movie, the kids watched it and I half way listened) the father figure in this movie had lost his leg serving in the Spanish Civil War. The second incident was I recently purchased an Astra Model 400 that was reportedly a vet bring back from that war.

    So - what was the US involvement, troop deployments, etc?
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 985
    (6/29/01 8:09:06 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bob, I don't think there was any official US involvement, but there were lots of US Soldiers of Fortune, and ideological "Volunteers", and American Communists fighting for the loyalists.

    There is a story of a US fighter pilot that had a "Duel" dogfight with Mussolinis son.

    Many pilots, and college student volunteers too.

    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 612
    (6/29/01 8:40:39 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    That is why I asked - I don't ever remember encountering any historical reference to official troop involvements in that conflict.
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    kdubaz
    Moderator
    Posts: 109
    (6/29/01 10:51:20 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, we all know Hemingway was there!

    Bob - Didn't some US volunteers go over to drive ambulances and assist in the medical service? As with PS, I'm aware of many, many US boys and men going over to serve on one side or the other.

    You know, all through the WWII history, seldom is mentioned the fact the Spanish Civil War did more to hone tactics, equipment and alliances than any other single occurrance prior to WWII.
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 987
    (6/29/01 10:56:01 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ...well, maybe Japanese Aircraft development and tactics in China...Technically the War started in 1937...

    kdubaz
    Moderator
    Posts: 117
    (6/30/01 12:25:23 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Shoot, Polish -

    Those two antaginists were fighting each other well before the turn of the 20th Century!!
    I don't think any aircraft design or tactics resulted in the battles with each other that wasn't copied from the activities ongoing in the Spanish Civil War. As always, non-involved countries have "observers" on both sides of the conflicts to learn the good and bad ways to fight their own wars. The Japanese were loosely aligned with the Germans and Spanish civil governments at that time and surely used some of the lessons in their actions against the Chinese, as far as airpower goes. They always had their own ideas for land and sea warfare.
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1000
    (6/30/01 5:22:48 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't really agree. Actually the Japs invaded Manchuria in '31, the air battles started there then, some Historians list WWII starting THEN.

    Japanese aircraft development from biplanes to the Zero took place because of the battles over China in which some of the top mercenary pilots fighting against Japan with the best Russian, Italian, and US planes. But STILL the Zero was a "surprise" to the West in '41.

    Jap Naval air and carrier tactics developed in China too.

    I'm not dumping on your description of the Spanish CIvil War, you are right on the mark, just trying to not get you to make the mistake of assuming that was ALL the conflict going on at the time, and for direct influence on WWII, China was more important than Spain.

    And some lessons of Spain were flat wrong, every side INCLUDING Germany came out of Spain thinking Tanks were good only to support the Infantry in a piecemeal fashion..

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 499
    (6/30/01 9:09:04 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A group of Americans formed the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade" that fought on the Loyalist side. Most were idealistic amateurs, some were, or later became, communists. There was no involvement with the U.S. military.

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1141
    (6/30/01 10:40:28 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bob, you ain`t foolin me......ya just want ta make them Julie`s more valuable. Moon river.....wider than a mile....I`m foolin you in style...............Moon river......

    kdubaz
    Moderator
    Posts: 125
    (6/30/01 11:02:22 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    LTS - you insinuating Bob ( ) is out mooning on the river with his dreadlocks flappin' ?

    Polish - Now, you know that ain't right. Everyone knows the Japanese (see, didn't say Japs) could only imitate other countries inventions and equipment prior to the 2nd world war - heck, even their famous zero was a rip-off of ol' Howard Hugh's mono racer airplane!

    Seriously, their twin engine Betty bomber design was probably one of the best for that class of airplane during WWII. Had speed, range, bomb load. Just didn't have much in way of defense or sealing tanks.
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1007
    (7/1/01 6:30:44 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yeah, and if I remember right, they were all short and near sighted and wore thick glasses and bowed all the time too.

    Or so we were told....

    Actually, Chennault sent a detailed report on the first encounters with the Zero in China in '38 and '39 to the War department, where some low ranking officer threw it in the trash because EVERYBODY knew the Japs couldn't design and build a plane like that, everything they had was cheap copies of OURS.

    Then the Zero is a "surprise" in '41.

    Many soldiers, sailors, and pilots died because of that stupid rascism.

    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 629
    (7/1/01 8:58:16 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Abraham Lincoln Brigade" - great, that gives me a key to go to the Google Search. Thanks!
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 506
    (7/1/01 11:37:32 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Civil War
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bob......there was also a George Washington Battalion, and a John Brown Battery.

    Most of the recruiting was done thru the Communist Party, U.S.A. or the Young Communist League.

    During the depression, the Communist Party, U.S.A. was a quite large organization. At that point time, Communism didn't mean quite the same as it does today.....to many jobless Americans and young idealists, it seemed that Capitalism had failed, and that Communism was an attractive alternative.

    The volunteers were mostly young, left-wing idealists, and foolish.....but thus ever is the folly of youth.

    obelix2
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 226
    (7/7/01 8:54:13 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Lincolns
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Lincoln and Washington Battalions (later merged into one after numerous command idiocies) were part of the XV International Brigade. Their members were almost all Americans, though they also included some Irishmen who refused to join the British Batallion after the British Daily Worker failed to mention the Irish casualties at Jarama. In addition, the later-formed Mackenzie-Papineau Battalion, though officially Canadian, was also mostly 48-state type Americans.

    You didn't actually have to be a Communist to earn the privilege of being ordered into machine-gun crossfires by politically impeccable but militarily inept commanders, but you did have to be acceptable to the Communists: meaning a democratic idealist who bought the Popular-Front idea could join the International Brigades, but not a dissident Communist or, worst of all, a Trotskyite. Therefore, a few Americans ended up in the Leninist but not Stalinist (still following me?) POUM militia, as did the Englishman Eric Blair (George Orwell).



    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 558
    (7/7/01 6:26:43 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Lincolns
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Another little known fact Obelix......St. Louis Bob was there selling Astras to both sides!

    obelix2
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 228
    (7/7/01 7:54:57 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del I hate
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    to disagree with anyone, as is known by one and all, but it is a well-known fact that SL Bob has never sold a SCW Astra 400 to anyone. Especially me.

    Actually, the Republican forces were armed with whatever they could find, since most of the regular army went with the Nationalist rebels. Since, however, several regular garrisons surrendered early, you can find photos of militiamen (and militiawomen) armed with 1893 and 1916 Mausers. Most of them died before they knew how to load a clip.

    The handguns are more problematic, since they're rarely displayed in the wartime pictures, and when they are they're mostly broomhandles.

    Since Barcelona was the only real industrial center that survived the first year, many Republican arms were produced there. Upon victory, though, Franco's people effaced the Republican markings, and guns so marked are now very hard to find. Believe me.
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
General Military Arms & History Forum Spanish Civil War? Jul 30, 2007
General Military Arms & History Forum Newly purchased Spanish Mauser questions Apr 22, 2013
General Military Arms & History Forum Any Spanish FR7 or FR8 Mauser gun owners? May 30, 2005
General Military Arms & History Forum wtb 1916 spanish mauser parts upperhandgaurd and front screw Mar 4, 2003
General Military Arms & History Forum Civil War muzzle loader question? Aug 5, 2013

Share This Page