Starting load for cast 9mm bullet not cycling

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by dmh, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. dmh

    dmh New Member

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    Hi all, per the title, I've started casting and am trying 9mm first.
    I'm using a mold which bullets mics right at .356 so I didnt size. I tumble lubed with liquid alox. I weighed the bullets and they were all between 116.9 - 118.0 grains. For the starting load, I used a 120 gr lead load from Lyman: 4.0 grains Unique. Win. small pistol primers. It doesn't seem to push the slide all the way back and doesn't feed next round or catches the case right after ejection. I tested 10 rounds and it only cycled succesfully once. Anyone have any ideas how much I should up the powder to get it cycling the slide properly? I weighed 5 of the charges at they were at 4.0.

    It's a fairly new Ruger SR9 so its a lil stiff. I also have some AA #7 powder but couldn't find any load data for it.

    I am using this mold: "Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold TL356-124-2R 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 380 ACP (356 Diameter) 124 Grain Tumble Lube 2 Ogive Radius" (Item #141131 on midway)

    Any info would be appreciated!
  2. AngelDeville

    AngelDeville New Member

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    I'd start with a min load for a 115gr bullet and work up from there keeping below max.

    Edit

    one of my books shows 4.5gr min load for a 115gr bullet.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2010
  3. AngelDeville

    AngelDeville New Member

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    Even bullets of the same weigh will perform differently, because of seating depth, bullet/case OAL.

    I always compare at least 2 loading manuals, sometimes one's max is anothers starting load. If there is too much difference I use a third and a fourth source.
  4. namvet44

    namvet44 New Member

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    I did a quick search on line for Alliant reloading and only found data for gdhp but all the bullet weights show much more than what you are using. Keep in mind that a lighter buller uses MORE powder than a heavy one. So I would try increnments of 10% from where you are to see how it works. BE CAREFUL and do not exceed MAX load recommendations.
  5. dmh

    dmh New Member

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    Going to try a small batch at 4.4gr. I'm suspect maybe my charges were getting lighter too.
  6. noylj

    noylj New Member

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    1) Can you cycle the loads by hand and have the gun feed and chamber them?
    2) What is your COL? should probably be around 1.130-1.142. The 9x19 is EXTREMELY sensitive to COL and you want the longest COL that fits in your magazine and feeds and cycles in your gun. Also, any limp wristing will cause FTF and FTE.
    3) This is one of those loads that, depending on the COL and other factors, could produce a full pressure load very quickly or, if you have a barrel with sloppy military-type chamber, could require a lot more Unique just to function. You have to be careful.
    Here is a compilation of 9x19 load data for a 120-125gn lead bullet and Unique and AA7 (in my guns, 5.5 gn Unique is real close to MAX and I have never tried AA7):
    Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL
    L-SWC 121 Unique 4.0 Accurate 0
    L-RN 125 Unique 4.0 Accurate 0
    L-RN 121 Unique 4.0 1013 Start 123
    Swaged L-RN 124 Unique 4.0 900 Start 112 1.142
    L-RN 125 Unique 4.1 911 Start 114 1.142
    Speer L-RN 125 Unique 4.1 911 Start 114 1.130
    L-CFP 121 Unique 4.3 940 Start 114
    L-RN 121 Unique 4.3 940 Start 114 1.142
    L-RN 121 Unique 4.3 930 Start 113 1.142
    RCBS 9mm-125-RN 123 Unique 4.3 995 122
    L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max 126
    Speer L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max 126 1.130
    swaged L-RN 125 Unique 4.5 1007 Max 126 1.142
    L-CFN 124 Unique 4.7 1083 Start 134
    L-RN 121 Unique 5.0 1194 Max 144
    Swaged L-RN 124 Unique 5.0 1100 Max 136
    L-RN 125 Unique 5.0 0
    L-RN 125 Unique 5.1 1102 Start 138
    L-CFN 124 Unique 5.2 1166 Max 145 1.140
    L-CFP 121 Unique 5.3 1135 Max 137 1.100
    L-RN 121 Unique 5.3 1135 Max 137
    L-RN 121 Unique 5.4 1145 Max 139 1.100
    Lead 125 Unique 5.4 Start 0
    Lead 125 Unique 5.5 1139 Max 142 1.150
    L-RN 125 Unique 5.5 1122 Max 140 1.100
    Lyman 356402 120 Unique 5.5 1125 135
    L-RN 125 Unique 6.0 1165 Max 146 1.150
    Lyman 356402 120 Unique 6.0 1275 153 1.150
    Swaged L-RN 124 AA7 6.2 900 Start 112
    SAECO 377 123 AA7 7.0 1024 126 1.080
    L-RN 124 AA7 7.4 1030 Start 128 1.095
    L-RN 125 AA7 7.5 1017 Start 127
    Lyman 356402 120 AA7 7.5 1050 126
    Swaged L-RN 124 AA7 7.9 1150 Max 143
    Lyman 356402 120 AA7 8.0 1100 132
    L-RN 124 AA7 8.2 1170 Max 145 1.095
    L-RN 125 AA7 8.3 1156 Max 145
    Notice that some manuals have a starting load that is higher than another manual's MAX load. Start low and work up. If you have fired some factory ammo, that will give you an idea of a full pressure load feels like.
    4) I really prefer that someone start reloading for the .45ACP or .38Special or almost anything other than 9x19 and .40S&W.
  7. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    The Hornady # 7 shows the minimum for AA#7 with a 124 grain lead bullet to be 6.2 with maximum being 7.9 grains. None of my books show a 120 grain bullet with #7, but Lyman #49 does show a couple of loads with AA#5.
  8. Boris

    Boris Former Guest

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    9mm Is a tricky one to load yourself. Like everyone else said some manuals will have a starting load that is higher than anothers max load. The main reason is SAAMI spec ammo for 9mm, even at its highest pressure is nowhere near what the original specs are. CIP in Europe has a much higher 'standard' pressure. I have a CIP loading manual that has starting loads that blow away the "hottest" SAAMI loads and they even have published loads that push a 147 OVER 1200fps from a 4" barrel. That published load makes IPSC major. Even SAAMI +P is underloaded compared to CIP specs

    Here is a scan of my CIP loading manual. It has SAAMI and CIP loads. Alomost every 9x19mm CIP starting load is higher than than the SAAMI max load.

    [​IMG]

    There are alot of 9mm pistol designs that hate weak ammo. The 9mm case can handle alot more psi than it is loaded to by SAAMI or any of its published data. Trouble is no one is willing to share real 9mm loading data. You will just have to find what works best for you and work your way up. Try different powders. Unique is old and there are better powders these days. AA#5 should work good for what you want to do. AA#7 will leave some unburnt powder unless you use a CCI550 primer, but them loads will be too hot for unjacketed projectiles. AA#2 does not work well in guns made for higher performance that are heavy sprung.

    Experiment a little and stick with a load that works for you when you find it. My pin load was a 130 made for the 38 super loaded with Viht N330. Very clean load and I got 1350fps from a 6" G17L. Knocked pins off as good as any 45 load and was a joy to shoot in my magnaported pin gun. Even worked well from the P226 on clearing pins.

    Don't mix case brands and pay attention to case length and OAL. Find a load that works and stick with it.

    Have fun and be SAFE.......
  9. dmh

    dmh New Member

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    I loaded to 1.135 OAL for these test runs. 9mm isn't the first thing I loaded. I'll keep that in mind and tweak my load a bit! 4.5gr Unique willl probably do just the trick. I would love to burn something other then unqiue but it's all I got for pistol powder except aa #7 which is too slow. I'd really like to get some Power Pistol or Vihtavuori but neither are available here.

    Also, I resized that batch of cast bullets, while they mic'd at .356 there was inconsistencies so resizing made a big difference. will shoot tomorrow :)
  10. The Count

    The Count New Member

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    hi there...

    i have been reloading for a while now and also had issues with my 9mm reloads in the beginning. i use my ammo mainly in a glock 17 and keltec sub 2000. both need a stout load to cycle properly. i messed around with starting loads (mainly clays) and they all caused FTF and FTE. an old timer told me just use 4.2 grains of bulls eye under a 115 grain bullet (plated or lead). tried it and presto... no issues at all. in the meantime i also use 5.8 grains of power pistol for the same bullets. even works a bit better, little more kick to it and still under the max listed by the manufacturer.

    DISCLAIMER HERE: ANYTHING I WRITE IS ONLY FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN ENDORSEMENT FOR ANY KIND OF AMMUNITION LOADING. ANYTHING YOU DO IS STRICTLY YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  11. dmh

    dmh New Member

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    I tried 4.8gr Unique on these bullets and had zero issues, went great. I ladder tested from 4.8 to 5.5gr and there was no noticeable difference so i will stick with 4.8.
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