Stevens auto shot .410 pistol

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms & Related Items' started by cmartin, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. cmartin

    cmartin New Member

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    In cleaning up an estate, I have come across a Stevens auto shot pistol in .410 guage. I was told that it is ok to own now that other pistols are being sold chambered for .410. I thought the the NFA rule still applied, and it has to be registered if I want to own it. Which is correct? Thanks...
  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    The other pistols being chambered in 410 are actually chambered in 45 colt, complete with rifled barrel, but with an extra-long chamber, so a 410 shell will fit. Since it has a rifled barrel, and is chambered in a pistol round, it is a pistol.

    I don't know anything about the gun you have found, but if it's a smoothbore, it's a shotgun, and the "Short Shotgun" rules of the NFA should apply.

    I suggest you get in touch with ATF for clarification.

    Owning it would probably be neat. Don't know if it would be neat enough to counteract these two negatives, though. From www.atf.gov, the firearms FAQs, the section on NFA.

    (M7) May a private citizen who owns an NFA firearm which is not registered have the firearm registered? [Back]

    No. The NFA permits only manufacturers, makers, and importers to register firearms. Mere possessors may not register firearms. An unregistered NFA firearm is a contraband firearm, and it is unlawful to possess the weapon. The possessor should contact the nearest ATF office to arrange for its disposition.

    [26 U.S.C. 5861(d)]



    (M8) What can happen to someone who has an NFA firearm which is not registered to him? [Back]

    Violators may be fined not more than $250,000, and imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. In addition, any vessel, vehicle or aircraft used to transport, conceal or possess an unregistered NFA firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture, as is the weapon itself.

    [49 U.S.C. 781-788, 26 U.S.C. 5861 and 5872]
  3. my1coffee

    my1coffee New Member

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    If you remove the barrel it becomes legal as it is then considered parts.
  4. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    Not as long as you still have the barrel and all the parts in your procession. As Alpo stated, you are between a rock and a hard place. If it has not been previously registered, I know of no way to make it legal now.
  5. FTK87

    FTK87 New Member

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    I think you just need a good hiding spot ;)
  6. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    Alpo and Rjay are knowledgeable members. You can usually rely on what they say.

    Federal agencies like the BATF, the FAA and the DOT administer and enforce Federal Laws within their jurisdictions. They also have to power to (and often do) make administrative rulings which have the power of law unless overturned in a Federal Court, which happens only rarely.

    The BATF has made its share of these administrative rulings over the years. Sometimes they appear to make rulings that reverse previous ones. Sometimes they make rulings that suddenly outlaw legally possessed things. But, they have placed some NFA items into the curio and relic class, also. I do not know or opine as to what the case might be with an antique, and collector item like you describe. Many of the BATF agents are quite knowledgeable on the finer points of their agency's positions, some do not always answer citizen questions correctly.

    The type of item mentioned by the original poster was likely removed from the $200 Transfer Tax List and placed on a $5 Transfer Tax List around 1968. Also there was a 30 day amesty in November 1968 when many contraband NFA items were registered and made legal without payment of the applicable Federal Tax. If it was (for lack of a better term) "registered" to the previous deceased owner there may be some BATF or Treasury Dept. paperwork in the estate. In such case it might still be transferable. If the decease owner held it as contraband it will likely remain contraband subject to forfeiture and criminal prosecution if apprehended in possession of it.

    I am not current on present BATF NFA positions. This is not my strong field. In fact I stay away from NFA items like I do agitated rattlesnakes. There are a number of collectors of this kind of material who might be better able to advise you as to your legal options relative to it.
  7. TOOHSOTKIL

    TOOHSOTKIL New Member

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    The Stevens auto shot is classified as an AOW.
  8. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    And my understanding is, if it wasn't registered by the end of the grace period (1968), it can not now be registered. I know you can get the stamp and make a new AOW weapon. Unless the regulation has been changed in the last few months, that's the way it is folks. I know it sounds dumb, but hey, I didn't make up the law. And no, you can't pay the tax , get the stamp and say you just manufactured a Stevens Auto gun. Could be wrong, been wrong before and I know I'll be wrong again in the future.
  9. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    I go to this forum area are only as a matter of academic interest. Based on the personal experiences of a former neighbor, form 40 years ago, I am less likely to go anywhere near anything that is likely an"NFA" item, than to try to pick up a coiled and agitated rattlesnake, with my bear hands.

    It appears that the BATF often has had "changes of mind" over the last 40 years. Before one throws a potentially valuable item in the "trash"; one might want to investigate further!
  10. utseyt

    utseyt New Member

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    I have an inherited Stevens Auto Shot, 12 inch, smooth bore barrel. My deceased father may have registered it during the 1968 Amnesty period, but I do not have any paperwork and thus, do not know if he did. Is there a way to find out if it was registered (without disclosing that I have it)?

    Second question: most of the responses I see from pros like ya'll seem to indicate that it is illegal to own and there is no recourse (if I can't prove registration) but to deep six the thing. One post stated that it was classified as an antique/curio under Sec IV and it COULD be owned. The presumption here being that I would have to go down and register it with the BATF.

    I know that logic may not apply when dealing with federal legislative nonsense, but seems like there should be a way to legally possess this beautiful firearm. Any ideas?
  11. 100 Bullets

    100 Bullets New Member

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    i THINK YOU COULD REGISTER IT, JUST not a machine gun
  12. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    100 bullets is very wrong!

    On another note, If a fellow was to take a 12" piece of .410 barrel somewhere and have it RIFLED...........
  13. cakes

    cakes New Member

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    If it was mine, I would have it made inoperable. Permanently(think welder). From that day on, it would be a display piece. A true curio by definition. And it would be legal for me to own.
  14. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that would matter.

    If you have a 12 gauge, with a rifled barrel, you can't cut it to 16", using "the barrel is rifled, so it's a rifle" argument. It's chambered for a shotgun shell, so it's a shotgun. By the same token, the rifled 12 gauge is not a "destructive device", even though it is a rifle in excess of 50 caliber, because it is chambered for a shotgun shell so it is a shotgun.

    The pistols, like the Taurus Judge, that are chambered for 410, are legal because they are chambered in a pistol round (45 Colt) and 410 shotshell will work in them. If you shoot a 45 in a standard 410 barrel it would rupture the barrel.

    But, yes, 100 Bullets is very wrong. The only one that can register a gun with the NFA is the manufacturer.

    Cakes is also wrong. "Permanently welded shut" will not meet ATF's requirements for making it "in-op". That would involve torch-cutting the receiver in a couple or three places, and pieces of metal being missing, so there is no way to ever put it back together.
  15. cakes

    cakes New Member

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    This is what I was referring to from Chapter 2 of the NFA.

    2.1.9 Unserviceable firearm. An unserviceable firearm is a firearm that is incapable of discharging a
    shot by the action of an explosive and is incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition. The
    most common method for rendering a firearm unserviceable, and that recommended by ATF, is to weld
    the chamber of the barrel closed and weld the barrel to the receiver.21 The chamber of the barrel should
    be plug welded closed and all welds should be full fusion, deep penetrating, and gas or electric steel
    welds. In instances where the above procedure cannot be employed to render a firearm unserviceable,
    FTB should be contacted for alternate methods.



    But upon further reading of Chapter 2, the firearm would still be subject to NFA rules, it just becomes tax exempt.
  16. cakes

    cakes New Member

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    Bill was on to something.

    Also from Chapter 2:

    A shot pistol (“any other weapon”) such as an H&R Handy Gun may be removed from the NFA by
    either disposing of the smooth bore barrel or permanently installing a rifled sleeve chambered to accept
    a standard pistol cartridge into the smooth bore barrel. Modified by sleeving the barrel, an H&R Handy
    Gun is no longer an NFA weapon because it now has a rifled bore.
    \





    The only other reasonable way to have a legal gun would be to permanently add a barrel extension that meets minimum length requirements and brings the gun to overall minimum length requirements.
  17. utseyt

    utseyt New Member

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    Stevens Off Hand Model 35 Shotgun

    Is this gun qualified or listed as a Curio by the BATF? In my research, I am getting mixed messages in the opinions offered on this site and others. I have no registration, at this point. If it DOES qualify as a curio & relic, does that mean that I will be able to register it without fear of having it confiscated?
  18. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    NO! All being classified as a Curio and Relic does is allow holders of a FFL03 (C&R License) to sell/trade such items among themselves. (Or purchase across State Lines without going thru a dealer (FFL01). All rules and requirements of the NFA are still inforce.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
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