stevens ideal ?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by mbirnie, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. mbirnie

    mbirnie New Member

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    i'm looking for info on a stevens target rifle that looks a lot like the stevens scheutzen. it is marked j stevens arms co 22 smokeless power. no ser # model # or date. it has 1/2 hex barrel, target stock. near new condition. sorry no picture at this time. any help would be appreciated
  2. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Hi mbirnie.....welcome to TFF. :)

    Not much to go on from that description. Could be almost any of the Stevens "Tip-up" type rifles.

    Does it have a "full loop" lever action or the finger type?

    Does it have a single trigger or double set triggers?

    Straight grip or pistol grip stock?

    If what you have is one of the "Walnut Hill" or "Schuetzen Rifles", their values are high enough that they should be "hands-on" appraised by an expert. In "near new condition", their value could range from $5,000 to $15,000.
  3. mbirnie

    mbirnie New Member

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    it has the double trigger and full loop lever. should have info latter today. thanks for your help.
  4. mbirnie

    mbirnie New Member

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    Thanks for the welcome and the help. I got a look at the rifle today so I have a little better info. The markings are J. Stevens A & T Co. Chicopee Falls Mass USA Special Steel for smokeless power 22LR SER#10XXX It has a full loop lever, double triger, stright grip stock. I looks like 1/3 hex barrel. the barrel is blued with little to no wear, the frame, lever and "butt plate" were not blued. also attaching picture.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2006
  5. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Well, looks like you've hit the Jackpot!!! :D

    Looks to me like a Model 49 "Walnut Hill Rifle".....and, in Excellent condition.

    The Standard Catalog of Firearms values it at $6,000....but....the Blue Book says of the Models 45 thru 54...."these models models have to be taken one at a time for determining value. Therefore, no prices are shown."

    And....I agree with the Blue Book. Rare and Collectable firearms such as yours (especially in the excellent condition yours is in) should really be examined and evaluated, "hands on" by an expert.

    Soooo.....until you can have a expert value it, let's just say that it's probably a "Walnut Hill" and most likely worth in the $6,000+ range.

    Congratualtions....it's an absolutely beautiful example of one of Steven's most wonderful creations.....and I've just ruined my keyboard by drooling on it! :D :D :D
  6. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    It is most certainly of the Stevens "Ideal" line, but a couple of things trouble me, in the identification of this rifle.
    First, and maybe least, I see no cheekpiece on the stock; this is typical of the lower grades, but the checkering is not; Stevens would build most anything ordered, for a price, back then, so may or may not be an issue.
    Second, the action appears to be a true 'falling block', as in Models 441/2, and 044 1/2, not a tipping block, as in the Model 44 line, judging by the single photo,and the receiver contour.
    It is gorgeous, regardless!
    The M-49 'Walnut Hill' rifle was built entirely on the M-44 frame, the tipping block action, to my knowledge
    If you take off the fore end, and look at the bottom flat of the barrel, the barrel 'weight', and the rifle s/n, should be stamped there
    If, as I suggested, this is a true falling block action, I'm not sure of the model, but it is far more desireable than the M-49 'Walnut Hill', both in function, and in value.
  7. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Yeah, Stash....I noticed the lack of a cheekpiece too. I id'd the rifle on the basis of the pix in the Standard Catalog of Firearms.....it look closest to the Model 49 Walnut Hill they have pictured on page 1155.

    If it does, indeed, have the 44 1/2 action, it would probably be a Model 54......but that has a cheekpiece, palm rest, and a different lever loop.

    In any case.....this is still a very valuable rifle, in excellent condition, and I still feel it should be valued "hands on" by an expert.
  8. SGVictor

    SGVictor Member

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    Very nice Stevens.

    The screw locations in the frame persuade me that this is a 44 1/2 action.

    My book on Stevens by Harold Strong which has old catalog pages reproduced lists the Walnut Hill No. 49 as a 44 1/2 action and all the guns in the No 45 through No 56 are lated as "Made to Order" None of the catalog cuts in the book show a riflle exactly like the one being discussed. There are a lot of variations in butt plates, single /double triggers, sights
  9. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Stevens duplicated several model numbers in their history of rifle production, so even a 'hang tag' might not be definitive!
    Having handled and shot at least a dozen 'Walnut Hill' rifles, and owned three, I will tell you that all were M-44 'tipping block' based actions.
    The 44 1/2 was both preceded, and succeeded, by the 44, it's production, as I recall, was only from about 1907 to 1922; the 44 continued, long after that.
    Here's the clinker. As I said earlier, Stevens, like Winchester, and others of the period, would 'build to order', almost anything a customer asked, and paid for. This was in the period when Harry Pope ran the barrel shop, so the sky's the limit! The rifle could be all 'factory', or an excellent custom, of the period; the 'wave', on the bottom of the pistolgrip, says 'factory', but, were I the 'smith, I would have done that, too
    I know this maker, very well, and have a ton of research material at hand, as well.
    I would like to see this rifle, in at least three or four different (axis)photos, in order to really establish it's origin; suppose, for example, there is a cheekpiece on the right side of the Buttstock, which we have not seen.
    A "factory correct" left handed Stevens M-54, with the cheekpiece on the 'wrong side', would be closer to a $60.000. piece, than $6,000,as previously offered, on this board!
    In any case, it is a very desirable rifle!
    My cell is 210-215-2323. Please, call me about such rifles, before you sell them, or buy them, short. Thanks!
  10. mbirnie

    mbirnie New Member

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    Sorry that it is not a "wrong hand" model. This rifle is going on the auction block in about an hour at a small estate sale. I will let you know the outcome. hopefully it will go home with me.
  11. mbirnie

    mbirnie New Member

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    I am now the owner of this unknown Stevens rifle. you said you would like to see more pictures, what angles and what areas? this rifle has the ser# stamped on the frame under the lever and on the barrel at the end of the forearm. the man that had the rifle said that he bought it at an auction in Ks in 1950, no known history befor that. I really appreciate the help. tried to call but you must not be near your phone.
  12. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Sorry I missed your call; Congrats on the new "family member"!
    So many questions- Look down the bore- is it left or right hand rifling?
    Left is VERY good; implies a "Pope-Stevens" barrel, likely produced before 1915!
    Would love to see a pic of the receiver, either left or right, but square on the side, to positively ID the action
    I shoot with a German shooting club, and struggled for several years to be able to find and afford a 441/2 action, now my 'offhand' rifle.
    Winchester single shot rifles used better steel, and I have several of them, but the Stevens 44 1/2 action is a better engineered design, IMHO.
    If/when you decide to part company with this rifle, please let me know!
  13. mbirnie

    mbirnie New Member

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    sorry for all the questions but it was something i could not pass up. looking down the bore the rifling dose go to the left. also sending shot of top and left side of receiver. if it goes up for sale you will be first in line. thanks for your time and help.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006
  14. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Any of you following this thread need to know, well ahead of time, this is one saavy guy! I mean that in the very best way!
    The rifle he just bought, or stole, perhaps, at auction, is a Pope-Stevens barreled 44 1/2 action, with a Non-catalogued stock; I have studied these rifles, in some detail, for thirty years, and never seen another with these features!
    Wanna really drool? Slide right and look at the rear sight! It also appears to be Stevens, the part I can see. Globe front, buckhorn barrel, and Vernier tang sights; the only thing that could make this rifle more interesting is if there were no barrel sight! McBirnie done good: REAL GOOD!!!
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006
  15. sarzak

    sarzak New Member

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    why doesnt this ever happen to me
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