strange remington-rand

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by starznbarz, May 10, 2010.

  1. starznbarz

    starznbarz New Member

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    I have a remington rand with a strange s number- the weapon was purchased from a gun shop many years ago. it is parkerized, the frame markings are - united states property m1911a1 U.S. army, then below in larger than normal type -no. NHN500. the slide is marked remington rand syracuse N.Y. the portion of the frame the s # is on has not been altered(the finish matches the rest of the frame exactly) It seems to me when I purchased this weapon in the 80`s I was told it was a service weapon from korea that was sold to the public by the military. any body ever seen one numbered like this? any info appreciated.
  2. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Importer mark???
  3. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    Remington Rand Variations

    *The following information in the description of the variations of M1911A1 pistols was obtained from "Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1", by Charles W. Clawson and in part from my own observations.


    Serial Number View View Description

    No. 916784 Left Right Produced 1942 with the Du-lite blued finish over a sandblasted surface and with the "No." serial number prefix found from serial number 916405 to about serial number 1016000. Also note the first style slide logo "REMINGTON RAND, INC. SYRACUSE, NEW YORK" found from serial number 916405 to about 955000. Given final inspection by Colonel Frank J. Atwood "FJA" on the left side of the receiver. All Remington Rand pistols inspected by "FJA". This is the earliest serial number known by this collector produced by Remington Rand. Note the "P" proof marks on the slide and receiver which were stamped with the same die after the pistol was proof fired. The "P" marks should match and if they do not then the slide and receiver are mismatched. The Du-lite blued finish is found from serial number 916405 to about 995000. The bullet ramp of the receiver was machined after the pistol was blued or parkerized leaving it bright unfinished with fine machining marks which was performed on all Remington Rands. Note the "stubby" hammer which is found on these early pistols along with Colt widespur hammers.
    No. 922611 Left Right Early 1943 production with first slide logo, "No." serial number prefix but, without the finger clearance cuts on both sides of the receiver. Pistol is fully inspected and accepted. A sign that Remington Rand was having problems in the early production period much like the other manufacturers. Again, notice the "stubby" early Remington Rand hammer found on these early pistols.
    No. 938305* Left Right Produced 1943 has the "No." serial number prefix and has a Du-lite finish. Also has the second style slide logo "REMINGTON RAND, INC. SYRACUSE, N.Y., U.S.A." which is 1 3/8 inches long and can be found from about serial number 935000 to about 1015000. Therefore one can find the first or second style slide logo in the serial number range 93500-955000.
    NO. 972869 Left Right 1943 production with the large "NO." serial number prefix, Du-lite finish, and the second style slide logo. "NO." serial number prefix found from about serial number 955000 to the end of production. The prefix can be either "No." or "NO." between serial number 955000 and 1016000.
    No. 1013171 Left Right 1943 production with "No." serial number prefix, Du-lite finish, and second style slide logo. All Remington Rand pistols with the "No." serial number prefix were finished with the Du-lite bluing process and if are parkerized have been refinished.
    NO. 1024851* Left Right 1943 production with the "NO." serial number prefix, parkerized finish, and the third style slide logo. The third style logo can be found after about serial number 980000. Therefore, there is overlap in the serial number range 980000-1015000 where the second or third style slide logo can be found. Parkerized finish found from about serial number 995000 to the end of production.
    NO. 1496416 Left Right 1944 production with post-1955 Birmingham Proof House marks. Released in 1958.
    NO. 1753944 Left Right 1944 production with serrated slide stop and mainspring housing. Changed from checkered to serrated after about serial number 1350000. Remington Rand pistols are found with only serrated slide stops and mainspring housings. The hammers and thumb lock safeties remained checkered.
    NO. 2440823 Left Right Produced late 1945 near the end of the contract. Note the light gray finish found on Remington Rand pistols after about serial number 2380014. The last pistol manufactured by Remington Rand was serial number 2465139. Remington Rand produced a total of 877751 pistols from 1942-45.
    NO. ERRS 65 Left Right One of the Experimental Remington Rand Series pistols for conducting experiments in order to improve the pistol. ERRS pistols were numbered from 1 to about 100 and were probably made after mid 9143. These pistols were presented to officials and employees of the company. Note the Du-lite finish and the bright burnished serial number which was stamped after the pistol was finished causing the finish to be abraded from the walls of the letters and numbers giving them the bright appearance.
    14 Left Right Remington Rand also produced "Demonstration Pistols" for instructional purposes used to educate company workers of the importance of their particular role in manufacturing the M1911A1 pistol. These were numbered from 1 to about 145 without a serial number prefix. Also probably made after mid 1943 and were also presented to company workers and officials. This pistol was presented to James E. Anderson, an inspector at Remington Rand.
    MG-200 Left Right A mystery pistol which has been manufactured at Remington Rand and assembled per military specifications. Marked "MG-200" where the serial number would be on the right side of the receiver and marked "MG-200" just below the slide logo on the left side of the slide. Has the black experimental Keyes Fibre Co. grips, but has no other markings. Manufactured much like the ERRS and Demonstration pistols, but I have not been able to ascertain the meaning of the "MG-200" marking. Possibly an in house experimental pistol or even a guard gun.
    Shipping Box Side Top Remington Rand pistols were packed in this type of box with two spare wrapped magazines for shipping to their destination. Note the nomenclature on the lid, the paper tape used to seal the lid to the bottom of the box, and the finger cut outs on each side of the lid.
    Barrel Markings HS SP F Colt Normally found with High Standard "HS" marked barrels on the right lug. Some "Colt" marked barrels on the left lug and Springfield Armory "S P" marked barrels on the right lug found during early production. Also, some Flannery " F " marked barrels on the right lug found during late production.
    Grips Early Keyes Later Keyes Remington Rand used plastic grips made by Keyes Fibre Co. Both styles have on the inside the strengthening ribs and the "K" inside the 5 pointed star. Early style without reinforcing rings around screw holes and later grips with reinforcing rings around screw holes. Date or serial number not known when the transition was from early to later style grips.
    Magazines Contractors Full blued tube with spot welded base, and the top of the lip of the base marked: " L " M.S. Little Mfg. Co. , " R " Risdon Mfg. Co. , " S " Scovill Mfg. Co.. The General Shaver Division of Remington Rand manufactured mags that were issued with Remington Rand pistols only and were: full blued, spot welded base, marked with a " G " on the top of the lip of the base, and had spot welding down the back of the tube. Remington Rand pistols were issued only with these four types of magazines.
    General Shaver
  4. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

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    as you can see there is no mention of NHN..... perhaps a import mark. check out the experts at www.1911.org i would bet you'll be a answer there.
  5. starznbarz

    starznbarz New Member

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    thanks for all the info, as it usually happens it creates more questions. I found some of the identifiers you mentioned- the marks on the barrel lug are hs on one side and p on the other, I found a proof mark on top of the frame after the slide is removed, it is g , but have not been able to find the matching mark on the slide - there does not seem to be a mark on the slide other than the remington rand company stamp. the hammer,thumb safety, trigger and mainspring housing are all checkered and the slide is serrated. will go to the link provided and see what I can see. if anything else comes to mind I would appreciate it.
  6. williamd

    williamd New Member

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    Pics of all the markings would be nice. Frame and slide, top of frame, bbl lug, under firing pin stop, etc. P, H on bbl?

    hs - Hgh Standard bbl [so maybe an arsenal overhaul], p - proof. g - gov't contract. Some arsenal overhauls were not stamped.

    I have a 1911 marked Remington Rand on the slide but it is not a RR frame. A couple of arsenal overhauls can really obscure things. Special S/N's were used for various things but NHN is a new one ... to me.

    Also look at www.coogunsite.com
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
  7. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    A "G" on the frame to designate a Government contract gun was used only by Colt; R-R never made any M1911A1's except on contract, and didn't need or use a letter.

    So the frame would appear to be Colt, not R-R. So, NHN? Certainly not a government serial number. (BTW, it is a serial number, odd or not, so there is no legal problem.)

    Jim
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