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Tactical Glock 17 shooting questions

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6K views 35 replies 10 participants last post by  CampingJosh 
#1 ·
Hello! I recently bought a used Glock 17 (pretty great condition) and have a few questions maybe someone could help me out with.

1. Is a light or a laser a better fixture on a sidearm? I dont live with family, and the few i have over, wouldnt be in pitch blackness for me to ID them as we leave lights on in most major rooms any opinions or real use for a light on a Glock 17?

2. I hear hollow points are standard for self defense, and on that note does anyone know how much a 9mm hollow point would penetrate before it was totally ineffective? I.E. the bad guy hides behind my couch taking pop shots at me, can i return fire and expect to hit him?

.3 Take the above question to a wooden door, personally what I figure i'd do in a self defense situation (and recently I almost had one, or thought I did, heard a loud noise some shuffling around and for the first time pulled out my side arm and locked and loaded, I was also shaking, dont laugh) once I was sure it was not someone I knew and it was someone that wasn't supposed to be there, i'd probably let some rounds through the door crouch down and call the police where i'd stay there covering the general direction of where I think the intrusion is. Would that be a waste of my precious rounds? or would it go through the door not being a full metal jacket?

Thanks! -Darkwolf
 
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#2 ·
i'd go with a light only if it were me. a laser can be effective but it is a bigger distraction then anything else for a new shooter or someone not trained to use it properly. just because the lights are left one doesnt mean that the power wont go out at the wrong time.

a couch wont stop a bullet of any type. a hollow point would be unaffected by a couch and anyone that has any sense wouldnt take cover behind one.

fmj would make it through the door, hollowpoints might too, but not as guaranteed. but no matter where you're at you absolutely do not shoot through the door the cops will arrest you if you do. the best bet is to stand or set back from the door as far as possible and then shoot the bad guy after he enters your house

depending on the state you live in you're subject to laws that govern when you can and cannot defend your house and yourself. in some states you cannot defend yourself unless you're cornered. in some states you can shoot someone in your house regardless
 
#3 · (Edited)
fmj would make it through the door, hollowpoints might too, but not as guaranteed. but no matter where you're at you absolutely do not shoot through the door

depending on the state you live in you're subject to laws that govern when you can and cannot defend your house and yourself. in some states you cannot defend yourself unless you're cornered. in some states you can shoot someone in your house regardless
That was my question also, what state do you call home, DW ?

worthy advice on the door, always be certain of your target. There are certain scenarios where I would fire through a door, but it would be very very few and I would have to be certain that what ever is on the other side is for 100% certain a credible threat.
 
#4 ·
Think twice before you fire through a door without knowing what or who is behind
that door. Once when I was a kid in High School, I was sitting home alone one
night and I heard a scratching at my front door. I got my 25/20 Winchester out
of the closet loaded it and sat down facing the door. The scratching continued.
Just as I got ready to empty a magazine into the door, I heard my best friend's
voice saying hey Zeke it's me. Don't shoot through closed doors if you can help it.
Zeke
 
#5 ·
while you might be scared, you really are at no threat to someone on the other side of the door.
 
#6 ·
I live in texas, for those who were wondering, and I didnt know there was legalities behind it, however bad guys dont care in the first place and they might shoot through MY door first. My only real option is to wait for them to slowly open my door, ID them, and THEN shoot them through the door or wait for them to fully open it?

(I also live with no family, with mostly brick exterior)
 
#7 ·
i dont know the laws for texas. but i am pretty sure you cannot legally shoot them until they are posing a severe threat to you. such as forcible entry into your house, or shooting through your door.

its doubtful that they would try shooting through the door however. unless perhaps the mob has a hit on your or something

you cannot carry your gun in texas without a license to conceal. and there is no open carry. im in kentucky and here i can carry openly without a license, and concealed with a license issued by the state police
 
#8 · (Edited)
You left out the best option, which is night sights. These things use tritium inserts to make the dots on the sights glow. Without that, something like a streamlight attached to the gun is pretty much a waste. You have to be able to see the sights. Just try to aim at something some time when the target is well lighted, but the gun is in the dark. It doesn't work.
As for penetration... You can read the promotional crapola for any bullet, and buy into it if you want to, but the truth is that just about all of the premium HP's perform just about the same. Have a close look here:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/9mm%20Luger.html
My choice is the Remington 124 gr. Golden Saber.
In the left side column, you can choose any other caliber, and see what they do. For self defense, the 9mm is as effective as any other pistol caliber. Shot placement is the whole "trick".
The more you read and learn, the more convinced you will be that the Glock 17 was the right choice. I have one, and a 19, and I can't say which I like better.
You seem to be pretty new to this, so it may be well to warn you about lead bullets. Don't shoot them. Glocks have polygonal rifling. When jacketed bullets are fired behind lead, the lead fouling serves as an obstruction, and bad things happen. It is OK to use copper plated bullets. You certainly should shoot the gun often, and enough to be proficient at delivering accurate fire to your intended target. Winchester "white box" ammo (in the 100 pack) is still cheap enough to make that affordable. You need to be familiar enough with the gun to just know what you're doing, so you can keep your attention on the situation at hand.
Just in case you have any doubts about your Glock, read this:
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90
There has never been a more durable, reliable firearm produced by anyone.
 
#9 ·
i disagree with you joe. i think a flashlight either on the gun or in hand is a far better upgrade then night sights. while night sights are neat, they are not a necessity. Identifying your target however is.

when an intruder is standing in the doorway night sights might help you to point the gun at the intruder. where as a flashlight would help you identify the intruder as a threat or, as a friendly. perhaps a fireman coming to pull you from a smoking building.

while night sights are an advantage, at the distances most self defense situations occur, and at the speed at which they occur, you rarely use the sights
 
#10 ·
i disagree with you joe. i think a flashlight either on the gun or in hand is a far better upgrade then night sights. while night sights are neat, they are not a necessity. Identifying your target however is.

when an intruder is standing in the doorway night sights might help you to point the gun at the intruder. where as a flashlight would help you identify the intruder as a threat or, as a friendly. perhaps a fireman coming to pull you from a smoking building.

while night sights are an advantage, at the distances most self defense situations occur, and at the speed at which they occur, you rarely use the sights
Great post. If you have a bright light on your target not only will you identify your target, Your sights will cast a shadow onto your eye. You will see them perfectly.

I have a front nightsight on my housegun and it gives me an idea where my muzzle is pointing when I aint looking at it. They are great tools but do not be fooled into thinking nightsights will be all you need.

Taken from the NRA shooting rules
Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.
Nightsights will never ID your target for you. A violation of the most important rule. Remember, even in a defensive shoot situation you can NOT ignore the rules of safety.

After my last tour I decided to get a laser for my house gun. Not for ninja status or because it is kool. I know for a fact I did NOT shoot atleast 7 people because I had a red visible laser on my rifle. When you blast someone in the face with a laser it will stop them in their tracks (most of the time), and yes it is easier than you think to blind someone with it.

We all need to get what we feel is best for our defense setup. Nightsights are a good idea, a light is even better. A laser is not needed, I just like what it can do ontop of being able to shoot from odd positions easier. My Unimax by lasermax also has a rail for me to put a light on under it if I feel like it. As of now though I use a handheld. I will get a light to stack on the laser someday and I will have all 3, why not! The more tools I have to do my job the better.......
 
#11 ·
One perspective concerning a light is that it also offers great signature - for the bad guy. Even the most blinding light is still tolerable for a few seconds to get a few shots off and what better target can you offer him than the light source stemming from your center mass and worse yet your face. Unless you absolutely get the drop on him a light can be a bad option, especially if they get around to shooting back.
 
#12 ·
One perspective concerning a light is that it also offers great signature - for the bad guy. Even the most blinding light is still tolerable for a few seconds to get a few shots off and what better target can you offer him than the light source stemming from your center mass and worse yet your face. Unless you absolutely get the drop on him a light can be a bad option, especially if they get around to shooting back.
Another perspective is launching bullets into the dark. Proper tactics will negate any con of a light of proper brightness. It will also PID your target.

I use a handheld 85 lumen LED light to eliminate the COM threat. I have seen first hand what a person does numerous times with that exact light. Not a single one of them got a single round off at me. I got PID, I blinded and delayed any threatening action against me. A bright light works, no two ways around it from my experience.

Number one safety rule is know your target and what is beyond. Lasers, nightsights, hopes, prayers, nothing else will PID what you might be pointing a deadly weapon at in the dark better than a light. It keeps you in compliance with the number one rule. Know your target and what is beyond it.

Just stand there and let them recover while you use no cover yourself and yes, a light will be the worst tool you could have. Just like learning basic shooting skills. You need to use basic tactics with every tool you have available........
 
#13 ·
I've thought about a light, but giving the bad guy a target really turns me off. I assume that this is a "SELF DEFENSE" situation, and something has already happened to make it clear to me who the bad guy is, and that he needs to be shot.
There are pros and cons for different situations, and it's very hard to know what to be prepared for. In the latest Cheaper than dirt catalog, I see a combined light/laser from streamlight for $230. Could be good.
The thing with night sights is that you can see in very low light anyway, and they don't betray your position like a light or laser.
Maybe the most fun would be to have several little audio devices around the house that are activated by motion sensitive things. When they're tripped, they play the sound of a racking shotgun, and yell out "Freeze, dirtbag!".
More cool audio fun would be to have something in the front and back yard that plays police radio chatter.
As it is, my 17 has nothing in it but boolits, with lotsa' spare 33 round mags.
 
#14 ·
When they're tripped, they play the sound of a racking shotgun, and yell out "Freeze, dirtbag!".
More cool audio fun would be to have something in the front and back yard that plays police radio chatter.
As it is, my 17 has nothing in it but boolits, with lotsa' spare 33 round mags.
My shotgun is ready to go. If I am racking it my position and advantage over the bg could be comprimised.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I've thought about a light, but giving the bad guy a target really turns me off. I assume that this is a "SELF DEFENSE" situation, and something has already happened to make it clear to me who the bad guy is, and that he needs to be shot.
There are pros and cons for different situations, and it's very hard to know what to be prepared for. In the latest Cheaper than dirt catalog, I see a combined light/laser from streamlight for $230. Could be good.
The thing with night sights is that you can see in very low light anyway, and they don't betray your position like a light or laser.
Maybe the most fun would be to have several little audio devices around the house that are activated by motion sensitive things. When they're tripped, they play the sound of a racking shotgun, and yell out "Freeze, dirtbag!".
More cool audio fun would be to have something in the front and back yard that plays police radio chatter.
As it is, my 17 has nothing in it but boolits, with lotsa' spare 33 round mags.
Regular joe, you are right that night sights can help you see your sights in very low light. If you stick with one style of pistol long enough it will point like your finger someday. You should practice until this becomes first nature to you. At that point nightsights will no longer be needed, the cast will be off and crutches will be useless to you.

Wanna betray your position? How about muzzle flashes and loud booms from your gun as a betrayal as you fire away into the dark and never connect because all you can see is your sights. I have seen more than one muzzle flash give a position away. Trust me on this one, their day did not end well.

By all means do what you feel is best for you. Just remember that as soon as you start flinging lead all bets are off. You just gaveup your position. The best way to end it is to put rounds where they need to go. To do that you need to see the target and your sights. A light will ID the target and allow you to see your sights. Nightsights will only allow you to see your sights. Muzzle flashes will blind you and give your position away. Not a good spot to be in if all you can see is some dim glowing sights.

If you do not want a light on your gun then maybe some remote light switches would be good for you. Turn the lights on in the rooms you hear noise from as you hide in the darkness. Whatever you do, PID your target before blasting away. I am sure if you get enough rounds off you might connect, but hopefully before they do.........

edit: my shotgun is also ready to go. If they get close enough all they will hear is the safety clicking off before they see one last huge fireball.......
 
#16 ·
a tactical light, such as a surefire or streamlight will temporarily blind an intruder. while you might give your position away, the intruder wont be able to see you for a split second. that split second is enough time for you to identify the intruder as either a threat or a friendly.

i think it very unlikely that a bad guy is going to break in the house and then clear the rooms, pistol in hand. most likely the bad guy will have a bludgeoning weapon or a knife if hes snooping around. in this case giving away your position by using a flashlight will not be much of an issue since you have a firearm.

also, if it's dark enough you cannot see the bad guy, then its dark enough he cannot see you. most likely he will not be blundering around in the dark, but have a light of his own. perhaps he will turn on the house lights, but i never heard of a night burglar that didnt have a flashlight.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Good points to both. I posted my response with regaurd to my experience in the field and seeing the aftermath of over 5000 intrusions throughout the area in which I reside. Unfortunately the days of "burgulars in the night" are mostly seen on television such as home security alarm advertisements. The threat that most concearns me is the one that is happening the most - the home invasion. These are the deadliest scenarios we deal with now, the gangbanging loosers who aren't intelligent enough to develop the skill sets of a stealth entry/burglary. Addmitedly the guy dressed in black coming in quietly would indeed produce a wonderful opportunity to stop with a light and some yelling at gunpoint

We are dealing with almost daily here in Las Vegas is kick in door, enter the house with force/guns showing, kill anyone inside. They usually already have the drop on you. The best defense is the bigger badder gun. BTW I live in a "castle doctrine" city so maybe my attitude is shoot first, a luxury not everyone has the rights to exercise and do need to concearn themselves with PID.
 
#18 ·
312 thats why i keep a glock on me. while that type of thing isnt hot with bad guys here i know it does happen. i also live in a state with a castle doctrine. although i have never heard it called that here. if someone breaks in your house you can waste them.
 
#19 ·
312 thats why i keep a glock on me. while that type of thing isnt hot with bad guys here i know it does happen. i also live in a state with a castle doctrine. although i have never heard it called that here. if someone breaks in your house you can waste them.
Thats why I have my Glock on me too.

I also have a short story on home invasions. My brother was over for a visit when I lived in an apartment for a while. The SOP of invaders was someone would cut the power down in the laundry room where all the main switches were. If someone was home they would almost always open the door to investigate. One evening my power went off. My brother told me he was going to check it out as he was closest to the door. I yelled at him to NOT do that. I could see the shadow of feet outside my door from under it!! I just happened to have my SAR1 out and I jacked a round into the chamber. The feet went from casting a shadow at my door to hurrying down the stairs as fast as they could fall down them. They could not leave fast enough. I waited 10 minutes and went down to turn my power back on and reported it to the office who called the po po. This was back in the late 90s and I did not have a cell like everyone has these days and my phone neede power to work.

It would sure suck to have your power cut, be in total darkness and have your door kicked in or have someone pull a jack move as you open your door.

I keep a light in my pocket all the time along with my Glock on my side. You never know when your power might be cut, or someone wants to kick your door in. If the later happens they are going to have to kick alot, it aint opening unless I open it BTW lol.....
 
#20 ·
normally i dont keep a light on me. although i am in the market for a mag/ light combo pouch for the glock
 
#22 ·
i've seen them before boris. been considering it but i really want leather to match my galco holster. i might end up trying to make my own.
 
#23 · (Edited)
312 - We're neighbors! I live close enough to the Hard Rock to hear the parties on week-ends. Strangely enough, it's pretty quiet here, otherwise, but there are usually at least 2 Metro units on this block ALL the time.
As for needing a light on the gun, there is always enough ambient light here at night to forgo that need. No-one belongs in MY apartment but me, so that precludes the problem of ID.
This point and shoot technique that was mentioned is called (strangely enough) point shooting, and to some extent, it's true that an experienced shooter is good enough at home invasion distances.
In my experiences where I have actually needed to use a gun to protect myself, it has always been in the outdoors, in daylight, and usually at some distance. You never can predict when you'll need to defend yourself, and that's why I say it's hard to know.
As for betraying your position with the sound of a racking shotgun: SO WHAT?????????? You have a giant gun, and now the intruder fully knows that. The next move is his either way, and he can only let you know if you need to fire or not. My suggestion was to have audio devices that make that sound. Bad guyz are very put off by things that make them wet themselves. Yes, I have caused "bad" guyz to wet themselves, but that was a live fire exercise.
As for blinding myself with muzzle flash.... MAKE SENSE!!!!! I shoot often enough at dusk and early darkness to know exactly how much flash my 17 and 19 produce. If the load is that flashy, you need to change the load you use. It appears that some of the folks here who have so much advice to offer are not all that familiar with their own guns. A shotgun produces ZERO flash.
I do what I suggest anyone who is serious about defensive firearms should do. I shoot a lot. I try hard to keep a low profile. If you don't want to get picked by the bad guy, don't raise your hand. If you get picked anyway, make absolutely certain that you have "shock and awe" close at hand.
There's an attitude one does well to attain, and I don't know how to explain how one goes about this. I mean, I don't know how I did it. In "bad" situations, you just have to move into a mindset where you're only thinking about what needs to be done in chronological order. No emotion. Here and now. If you do that, I do this, while I try to solve this problem. It's like fighting a fire onboard a ship.
 
#25 ·
OK Boris. Pick fights if you want to. I've never seen flash from my 870 Express, even with 3" Magnums.
My Glocks do have a little bit of flash, but that's with my Blue Dot hand loads. Even at max, the flash is not bright, but Blue Dot drives a 124 gr. JHP as fast as it can go. If one expects to shoot a 9mm in dark or near dark, I would suggest the Speer short barrel loads, which use something with a burn rate closer to Unique or AA5. My 115 gr. JHP loads using HS-6 don't flash. It is an important part of load selection to know whether or not you get flash, and how much.
There is a rule in gun fights and on internet forums, Boris: Don't pick fights with people who know what they're doing.
 
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