tarus judge problem factory loads

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by hunter29180, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Active Member

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    went to a indoor range over the weekend, had to buy their ammo though, good price and muzzle velocity around 850.. about same as a cowboy load. problem emerged after firing 2-3 rounds single action fairly quickly the hammer seemed to bind..would not go to full cock..eased back down aqnd re-cocked seemed fin..till 6th shot and nothing...upon checking 4th round had been skipped..remember the bind?

    then when using DA again fairley quickly the trigger seemed to bind but the hammer did fall but no shot..upon checking it had advanced the cylinder and the firing pin did strike the primer..about half as hard as the "fired" shell. we did "refire the shell and it did what it was suppose to do..the firing pin hit in the exact spot as before as we did dot remove it from the chamber.

    stopped shooting it at this point..we did secure the gun on the second bind for about 15 min before checking the cylinder.

    when cleaning the gun i did a experment.. i applyed mild pressure against the muzzle end of the cylinder..the second pull in DA produced the identical problem we experenced..

    so the question what needs to be done to this gun to stop this problem?

    it shot very well and accurate even at 50 yds, unlike reports i have read about other judges..it is a SS 4" bbl tracker model, chambered for the 410/45lc..dont know how the 410 part patterens as this problem cropped up and as the 410 have a higher MV didnt wish to chance it at this point. really dont want to return to tarus would rather go to a good gunsmith!
  2. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR New Member

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    A DA problem in a taurus? nonsense. ;):D Seen this on many of their revolvers. 90% of the time its the ratchet lugs on the cylinder are mis-cut. As the cylinder rounds and locks at the bolt the hand (or lifter for you IJ guys) is supposed to slide up against the lugs and wedge it in position. Well the lugs are cut wrong so the hand can't travel up the lug therefor binding the hammer (they are connected) It acts like a timing issue but its not. Another issue is some of the judges have a bad endshake issue. So the hand is as far out as possible to reach the ratchet lugs. This causes it to stub and damage the ratchet or the hand and also the hand will get caught in the hand window on the recoil plate. Most smiths will tell you to send it to taurus anyway. It needs a new ratchet lug and to be refitted. (if taurus can even get it right the second time) The range I work at make it a common practice to dry fire all taurus revolvers at least 20 times to see if they bind just as you described. If they do, they go back.

    BTW the hammer didn't fall with full force b.c it was all hung up on the da sear. With the added resistence, the trigger did not fully clear for the DA sear on the hammer to fully pass. It is spring loaded but at the pivot point it will hit the trigger.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  3. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Active Member

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    thanks for the reply! i have dry fired this revolver over 100 time both single action, and in rapid fire DA. it has never hung up this way..i also dry fired it around 50 times since this weekend..again no problems..only tried the experment after son suggested it..upon rechecking the "experment" i can see the cylinder lock "locking" up the cylinder just before the hammer reaches full cock. this stops any further movement of the cylinder and the hammer. it only hangs when some pressure is applied to the cylinder. the cylinder does advance as it is suppose to, the hammer and trigger assembly seem to bind? could this be due some pressure on the ratchet pawl or sear as some call it being transfered to the interior assembly?

    i agree with the hammer hanging up on the DA sear.you can see that happening..
  4. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR New Member

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    The pawl is attached to the trigger on the back side of it. As you pull the trigger the pawl moves upwards. If the pawl becomes bound on something it will prevent any further movement of the trigger.
  5. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Active Member

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    so the pawl is the piece that looks like a halfmoon that comes up from the underside of the cylinder and locks the cylinder in place? when it locks in place no further trigger or hammer movement is allowed in the cocking movement? (using SA as example?)
  6. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR New Member

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    No actually thats the bolt or the cylinder lock depends on your school'n in revolvers. The pawl, hand, lifter is the little arm that protrudes through a slot cut in the recoil plate. It comes through the window as you pull the trigger and rotates the cylinder. Open the cylinder and look at the recoil plate, you'll see a slot cut off to the slight left of the center line. With the cylinder open you won't be able to pull the trigger but if you push the cylinder lock button back you'll be able to pull it and then you'll see it pop out and go upwards.
  7. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Active Member

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    ok i see what you are telling me.. when the action binds it seems to be binding off the pawl..as i examin the lugs(?) the pawl engages, they seem to be sort of rough cut on the beginning of the beveled slope. under no pressure the pawl clears this rough section, but with just a little pressure it hits right in this small area.so after firing the cylinder is still pushed back. so should that slope be smoothed out or is the cylinder fitting too loose?
    almost no play in front to back movement by hand now but there is a little. seems about the same as on my other revolvers..
  8. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR New Member

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    A little loose is OK but its a very little. don't attempt to smooth out the lugs on your own, if you do it wrong then you timing will be off. Unfortunately there is no way to correct the problem except by replacing the ejector star (this is what has the lugs on it)b/c it what sets the headspace and will keep the cylinder in the forward position. In the mean time it will take care of the rough lug issue. If need be, call around and find a gunsmith that knows smith and wesson revolvers, taurus is kinda similar in some respects.
  9. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Active Member

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    thanks Helix FR for the lesson..will be finding a gunsmith as you suggest..i chesked all my other revolvers both SA and DA and the ramps on all them are smooth, so i think this may be the problem. i dont have the tools or experience to attempt such a modification so a gunsmith is called for! as you check the tarus revolvers in your shop, take a look at the ones you send back and see if the ramp is rough as i have described..this may be the problem tarus is saddled with.
  10. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR New Member

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    Like I said 90% of the time, thats the problem:D
  11. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Active Member

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    be my luck to be in the other 10%!!!
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