Tech Tip - Winchester Model 100

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by CountryGunsmith, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. CountryGunsmith

    CountryGunsmith New Member

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    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (8/9/02 6:42:24 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Winchester Model 100
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    These were sleek little rifles that can shoot really well, but they have a couple of problems inherent to the model that should be avoided.

    We all know that 100's are subject to a recall. The recall involves the firing pin breaking within the bolt causing the pin to protrude from the bolt face. A slam fire (before the bolt goes into battery) can occur. To determine if a particular rifle has had the recall work performed, the bolt should be disassembled. If the firing pin is square in cross section, it is a post-recall part. This recall work is still being done by Winchester authorized repair centers.

    The problem is one I recently encountered on a customer gun. It was locked closed (on an empty chamber). Took some finigglin' and cussin' to get it apart. The trigger housing unit on this rifle dovetails into a slot at the front of the receiver. The rear of the trigger housing unit is screwed up into the recoil block. As these guns wear, they develop slop in the dovetail on the front of the receiver. If the rear guard screw is allowed to loosen, even 1 turn, the rear of the trigger group can drop down far enough to allow the bolt assembly to fail to cock the hammer on rearward travel. The bolt then returns forward, but now riding on top of the uncocked hammer which jams it tighter than a duck's butt at high tide.

    Most of the time, simply keeping the rear guard screw tight (Loc-Tite) works fine. The front dovetail could be peened and/or built-up and recut on extreme cases.


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
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    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (8/9/02 6:54:41 pm)
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    I didn't know that!
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    HondoJohn6508
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    (8/9/02 7:59:19 pm)
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    I think we can safely say that the Winchester Model 100 was not designed by John Moses Browning! Ol' John

    bullelk
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    (8/13/02 6:39:05 pm)
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    I always liked the 100. I can't understand why Winchester ever let that line go and let Remington have the semi-auto market. I think it was a big mistake on their part. I'm surprised that they never reintroduced them.

    They handled a lot better than the 742's and although not lighter, they seemed so. As far as I'm concerned, the 742 series handled like clubs. Lousy balance.

    They 100's had some problems jamming, but most of what I found was faulty clips and poor cleaning.

    I had one at one time that I cut the barrel at 21" and I couldn't beleive how it shot after that. It could drive tacks. I sold it and as far as I know it's still floating around this part of the country. (Maybe I should try to buy it again). I've heard that at times if you cut a barrel at a certain point, it can become super accurate. I guess that's where the concept of the Boss comes in. It tweaks the barrel at a certain point of the whip.

    Any comments on this?

    Edited by: bullelk at: 8/13/02 7:41:03 pm

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (8/14/02 12:22:28 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Winchester Model 100
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Winchester discontinued the 100 for purely economic reasons. The gun was considerly more expensive to produce than Remington's 740/742 and they were getting hammered on price point.

    A lot of a barrel's accuracy is attributed to its 'harmonics,' or how the barrel flexes during firing. To oversimplify, a barrel of a given thickness has an ideal length where everything is 'right.'


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson
  2. Basic Black

    Basic Black New Member

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    New to this forum so pls bear with me. I have a Mdl 100 bought in the early 60's that has been in storage. My problem is that the bolt is now stuck closed. What happened is that "we" tried to check the operation and inserted a empty caseing in to the breach. Now the bolt will not retract, the trigger will not work and the safety is stuck. Any suggestions as to how I should go about fixing this.
    Basic Black
  3. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    Welcome Basic
    Have you tried inserting something into the barrel and tapping the casing?
  4. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Too bad AntiqueDoc still isn't around, that sounds JUST like the problem he described up top years ago....That might work, Southern, but the PROBLEM is getting a rod or dowel that is that narrow enough but still take the rapping of a hammer, and NOT bugger up the rifling...


    I have a BEAUTIFUL wartime M44 action that I bought as a "parts gun" for $10 that somebody stuck a jacketed soft point in the barrel near the breach (I never figured out HOW, I kind of think some numbnuts was trying to hammer it in from the OTHER end trying to slug measure the bore size???? With an oversized JACKETED bullet???) They took the steel cleaning rod and tried to drive it out backwards when it stuck, and only managed to drive the threads of the rod into the soft point, and then drove the rod in deeper than the muzzle and STUCK it:mad: and it looks like quite a few "bubbas" tried their hands at driving the rod out since, peening the rod into the rifling, and buggerring it up....:mad:


    I finally cut the last 1" off the barrel, and got the rod out, then used a LONGER rod to drive it out, I'm still wondering if I can salvage it....but I figure saving the rod was worth $10, so I'm even....:D
  5. Basic Black

    Basic Black New Member

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    Tks Southernshooter. Would you try using an aluminum cleaning rod or would a piece of wood dowling be better? Really do not want to screwup my dad's 100, it means a lot to me.
    BB
  6. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Black, a solid piece of brass rod, as big as will fit in the bore without binding, and a bit of penetrant, like 'Kroil', would be my first attempt; the rod should be only a couple of inches longer than the barrel, and flat on both ends.
    Pour a tablespoon of the penetrant dowh the bore, from the muzzle, and keep the muzzle elevated, for 12 hours or so, before proceeding to attempt to drive out the case, with the rod. If it's simply a stuck case, because of the case having been fired in a different chamber, it will be a walk in the park. The clost fit of the barrel keeps the brass from feexing as you tap on the rod, getting every bit of force to the head of the case; the brass won't harm the bore in any way.
    Re read the thread starters original post, if it does not come out and open after six or seven whacks; could be, it's not a stuck case tying up the rifle.
    Good luck!
  7. Basic Black

    Basic Black New Member

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    Stash247, Tks for the advise. I will try your suggestions this weekend while I am away hunting and let you know how I have made out. By the way, the replies on this forum are quite a bit better and with no sarcasim, which is opposite to the other forum's that I am a member of. Again Thanks .. Black
  8. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Oh don't worry, Black, stick around for a while and you'll see PLENTY of sarcasm....:cool:


    We just wait until we know you better and you're a member of the "family," THEN we get vicious:D :D :D


    But don't worry, you aren't the ONLY person who has noticed it, in fact, this forum was started 5 or 6 years ago just FOR that reason, a handful of people that knew and respected each other from one of "those" forums where EVERY thread eventually got into pee-up-the-wall contest, "I know better than you," name calling, with trolls always lurking in the wings waiting to pounce:mad: ....

    We all vowed THIS place would be different, and it IS...and all the mods and admin try to keep it that way...


    We get into MANY "hot disagreements," we just try to do it with a LITTLE restraint and class.....and USUALLY succeed....:p


    But thanks for the comment just the same, we try!
  9. LIKTOSHOOT

    LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member

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    I sugest you re-read Doc`s advice. (and I will add this---if anyone out there owns the .308 version-I`m sorry, this was the black sheep of this run)

    What has more than likely happened is what Doc has described.
    The hammer has followed the bolt forward, the hammer now is wedged behind the bolt holding it closed -think of this like a wedge driven in from behind. Getting it out of a sealed action.

    Whacking it ain`t gonna work unless you hit it hard enough to break the hammer and anything else connected to that area.

    Yo uhave got to get the receiver loosened up or trouble will be your last concern after something inside snaps after you whack it!!


    LTS
  10. arctic338

    arctic338 New Member

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    We had the problem Doc mentioned on my Dad's 100 last fall. As Doc said it takes a lot of finiggilin to get it apart but we finally made it. Don't think I would start banging on it. Once you get it apart check the firing pin spring also. Good luck, they are great guns!
  11. Basic Black

    Basic Black New Member

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    Tks to every one for their suggestions. I used an Aluminum cleaning rod and insterted it in the barrel, then while pressing down on the bolt/lever I tapped the rod with a hammer. Lo and behold, the caseing popped out. No damage done. Again Tks to everyone. BB
  12. zrk.shortmag@gmail.c

    zrk.shortmag@gmail.c New Member

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    how does a person fix the mag jamming problem
  13. Mayor Al

    Mayor Al New Member

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    Today, May 8, we had the same issue with a Model 100 (308) that is described above. We hand-inserted a laser boresight device shaped like a cartridge case but of lite-aluminum. When the bolt closed on it it jammed, Bigtime !!. We finally used a cleaning rod down the bore and hammered it pretty damn hard, while pushing on the operating rod to clear the jam. This did work, but it destroyed the Bore-sight device. I will get another, but I will be careful to load it and keep the empty mag in the gun to prevent the bolt from closing on the chamber during the boresight exercise.

    Is there any history of the Model 100 doing this to regular ammo? or is it just with the empty case or irregular stuff like the bore-sighter???

    Any other feedback on use of the Model 100 in 308 for Texas Hog Hunts. This will be my first Hog Hunt, and the gun is new to me. Thanks for any and all feedback.
    Mayor Al
  14. jhawk

    jhawk New Member

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    Al,
    I've had a 100 for some time now, and have never had it jam on factory stuff. The problem with ammo jamming usually involves reloads of once fired brass that isn't properly full length sized. A semi-auto just doesn't have the camming strength of a bolt gun to yank those tight fitting or too hot loads out of the chamber.
    But to be safe, check the items mentioned by Antique Dr regarding the action screws.
    As to the hog loads: whatever shoots best in your gun. Despite what you may have heard, hogs (even Texas porkers) aren't cape buffalo. Core-lokts will work in .308. But if you are willing to pay the "insurance", you can't beat Barnes Triple Shox in Federal Premium. Just be sure to test them in your rifle before the hunt.
  15. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Many rifles will jam if closed on a fired case, especially one that was not fired in that rifle. The case swelled when fired, and then jams when forced into the chamber. It doesn't happen with unfired cases or when firing. It is just bad luck that the boresighter was the right (or wrong) size and jammed in the chamber. A little light oil on it might have helped prevent the problem.

    When loading for any semi-auto, you should full length resize and use the special sizing dies that are a bit smaller than the standard.

    Jim
  16. Inthewind1976

    Inthewind1976 Member

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    This is also true when reloading for rifles like the Remington 760 and the Savage 170 as well - FULL LENGTH EM, or you are gonna run into an issue, and if you have more than one rifle in the caliber the chance for a jam up or failure to feed with these pumps is just as great as with the semi's.
  17. JD-N-TN

    JD-N-TN New Member

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    Hello, new to the site. Was searching tips about Model 100 recall and found this site. A question. Winchester will send me a new firing pin for the old one, is this a repair that I can do? My work life was spent in the machine shop so am capable of understanding mechanical tips or anything that will help. The rifle was given to me by a friend and is in pretty good shape. The old pin was not broke when I disassembled the bolt. Would the new pin just go in the same place? Thanks for helping if you can.
  18. foolimat

    foolimat New Member

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    When they recalled the 100 model, Winchester sent gunsmiths a metal tray to drop each piece in, cap off then send it back to Winchester. I am looking for those trays. If anyone can give me an idea where to find one please let me know! Foolimat@yahoo.com
  19. Mayor Al

    Mayor Al New Member

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    Just a follow-up on my questions posted last May.

    Early in June 2011 we drove down to one of the pig-shooting ranches near I-10 in central Texas. I used both my Model 100--with Wolf 147 gr SP ammo and a 4-10x 50mm scope to help these old eyes in the late night shooting, and my Saiga 12 semi-auto Shotgun, Mixed loads of Win. and Rem Slugs and a turkey hunting scope 1.5-6x40mm. I left the drum mag and the long stick mags in the truck and armed the saiga with the factory 5 round box, mainly to save weight when wandering thru the woods.

    The three of us, two Grandpa's and our 13 yr old grandson manged to shoot 6 hogs. I got two, one with the model 100 and the other with the Saiga. The boy got three, all with his 30-30 Marlin, and Paw got the last one with his Marlin lever 44 mag. Largest hog was 180 lb hanging weight, the smallest was a 75 lb dumb **** (Sholt!) who got between the grandson and a larger hog that was his prime target.

    The Model 100 functioned just fine with the Foreign ammo. I used up about 50 rounds getting used to how they worked together before we left. It took only two rounds at the 'zero-range' to be sure the gun was dead-on. The rifle took the first hog, shot at about 90 yards about 11pm from a ground blind, we had dumped some corn on the ground, but didn't have feeders to draw their attention. Same for lights. A couple of hand-held spotlights, but no feeder lighting.

    The only down side of the blind shooting is that the 'big money' critters (Bison, Elk and various exotic antelopes) came in to mooch the bait corn, and the hogs knew enough to use them for cover as they trolled for 'chow'. Since a young elk went for $800 and the big Bison would have cost $2100 had we shot one, sorting out the targets from the innocent bystanders was a bit interesting.

    The second hog (110 lb) fell to the Saiga at about 30 yards moving rather quickly away from us as we walked thru his territory. Frankly the slug really did a job on both shoulders. Since we wanted BBQ meat this was a real case of overkill. Next time I will stay with the 308.

    We have enjoyed the results several times this fall.

    I was lucky to find another Model 100, the Carbine Version this time, at a local estate auction. It shoots as well as the longer barrel Rifle version (19 inches vs 22 inches) The balance is even better when a scope is mounted. My wife has fired the Carbine several times, and thinks she will use it for our next (her first) hog hunt later this winter.

    So thanks for the feedback on my earler questions, and now I have to find a Model 88 to match these two prize-winners!
    AL

    Attached Files:

  20. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

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    JD-N-TN, Winchester will not send you the parts. Not sure if they will even support the recall now that it is a wholly different company. At best, you will have to return it to a factory authorized service center.

    Thanks for digging up a (ahem) VERY familiar post from 2002! :)
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