Technical question re: old load handgun kept in storage

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by Cyn71, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Except for the old Remington double derringer (in .41 caliber) and the Model 51 auto pistol, there were no Remington handguns being made in the era you have chosen. I think your idea of an S&W swingout cylinder revolver in .38 Special is more realistic. By the late 1930s around 3/4 million had been made so they were quite common.

    There are some oddball exceptions, but usually revolvers don't have safety catches; to have an S&W revolver with a safety would show ignorance.

    Jim
  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Safety affecting loading the gun.

    That's a good question. Depends on the gun. Browning-designs (which were all the FNs and all the Colts) the safety also locked the slide. You could put a loaded magazine in the gun, but you could not work the slide to put a round in the chamber. Remington - don't know. Never had one in my hand. Savage and Walther - don't remember, and I'm to lazy to go dig one out of the safe to check. :p

    Luger - safety locks the toggle, so could not load the chamber. Mauser - same thing. Matter of fact, if it's a broomhandle, you have to pull the slide back to load the magazine, so you could not load anything in it with the safety on. Don't know about the Webley autos. Never saw one for real.
  3. Cyn71

    Cyn71 New Member

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    And this is exactly the type of reaction I'm trying to avoid. :D
  4. Cyn71

    Cyn71 New Member

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    This could work; have not heard of that type of gun before so I'll look into this one. The primer issue can still happen with this type, correct? As in, one or two maybe bad?
  5. Cyn71

    Cyn71 New Member

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    I see that the Walther (PPK) was created for the German Criminal Police; given the history of the time (when the gun was originally stored away in my book - during WWII), is it feasible that an American would own such a gun?
  6. Cyn71

    Cyn71 New Member

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    The S&W revolver you mentioned was my first pick all along (and it fits b/c as you said, it was a common piece). Since there's no safety, then either I'll have to pick another gun or just stay with my original scenario of a couple bad primers.
  7. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Well, the PP (Police Pistol - uniformed officer's holster gun) was released in 1929. PPK (Police Pistol, Criminal - detective/plainclothesman's concealed gun) was released in 1931. I can see, in the next ten years, it being possible for one to make it from Germany to here.
  8. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Should not be a problem with it being a "foreign gun". The Ortgies (won't work for your plot - no safety) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortgies_Semi-Automatic_Pistol was a German gun, made from 1919 to 1924, and Dillinger carried one. He was killed in 34, so somewhere in that ten or so years, several German Ortgies made it over here. I don't see why Walthers wouldn't.
  9. Cyn71

    Cyn71 New Member

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    Many thanks! I'm nearly done with 2nd draft and will soon be ready to start on 3rd. Before I return to the gun scenes a third time, I'll explore everything that's recently been posted and weigh my options between the S&W and the Walthers. Going with the Walthers will require a little tweaking, but it is certainly do-able; I like that it's got a safety feature - and the fact that it's a German gun kinda adds a neat twist to the end (given the identity of my antagonist).

    To clarify for my own mind - is it still possible to have the primer issue (one or two of them going bad) on a gun like the Walther?
  10. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Certainly. Bad primers can happen, no matter what the gun is.

    But, with a revolver, you got loaded chambers at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 o'clock. You pull the trigger and they all move, 1/6 of the way around. 12 goes to 10, 6 goes to 4, 2 goes to 12, etc. When 2 goes to 12, and the hammer falls, if it is a bad primer it just goes click. Pull the trigger again and they all move again, and the bad one at 12 moves to 10 and the one at 2 comes up to 12. So you could have a couple of dead ones. Click, click, and now the one that was originally at 6:00 comes up to 12:00, and it goes bang. Yay. Shoot the bad guy.

    An automatic, though, only works "automatically" if the gun fires. If, with your Walther, you pull the trigger and it goes "click", if you just pull the trigger again it will still go click. No matter how many times you pull the trigger it will still go click, because you are hitting the same bad primer. What you have to do with an automatic is grab hold of the slide and yank it back, ejecting the bad shell and loading the top one from the magazine. And, of course, if it also has a bad primer, you must work the slide again, to get THAT one out of the way, so the next one can feed.

    Saw almost this same idea in a Frank Yerby book. Civil War veteran, broke, in NYC, decides to kill himself. Tries twice to shoot himself in the head, but bad caps prevent the gun from firing. So he takes that as a sign, and says, "Hell with it, I'll go west and be a cowboy", and then points the gun at the fireplace and pulls the trigger again. The bullet hitting the burning log breaks it in two and fire is now burning on the rug. :eek:
  11. olafhardt

    olafhardt Member

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    Please don't have the guy click the safety off the revolver. Very few had safeties. Lots of serious shooters change out their defensive ammo to avoid this. Wild Bill Hickok is said to have changed his out daily.
  12. WHSmithIV

    WHSmithIV Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it would seem lame for a 50 or 60 year old revolver that was stored loaded to only be partially loaded. In a tense situation and if I was in that situation I'd pull the trigger and hope it went bang. If it went click and I still had time I'd try again and again. Then if it hadn't gone bang while I still had time to try for a plan B I'd throw the gun at his face and run like hell.
  13. WHSmithIV

    WHSmithIV Well-Known Member

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    and definitely make it a revolver - not a semi auto. Too many different safety options for a semi auto and your hero would need to a) drop the clip out to see if it had bullets and b) pull the slide back to find out if there's a round in the chamber. Lot of time used up there.
  14. Cyn71

    Cyn71 New Member

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    It's kind of funny you said this, because that's actually how I've got part of the scene written. LOL After the first unsuccessful attempt to fire, the gun is then used as a club.
  15. TheGunClinger

    TheGunClinger Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    An unloaded or a fail to fire gun is referred to as a hammer, or club.
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