The .223 military round

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by Palmetto, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Again, a failure to understand the military. When a soldier is wounded, his friends do not stop to take care of him. That happens only in the movies where a actor can take 20 minutes "dying" while making an Oscar-winning speech about the horrors of war.

    In the real world, the mission has to be carried out. Wounded are left for the medics whose job it is to aid them; combat troops continue to carry out the mission.

    Reportedly, Soviet and Red Chinese wounded were not even tended by medics - there weren't any. If a wounded soldier could make his own way to an aid station or treat his own wounds, fine; otherwise, he died. If the political officer decided his wounds were not serious enough for him to have left the front, he was executed on the spot.

    Jim
  2. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    The only time I saw troops in a fire fight move to the wounded was to retrieve them from an exposed position and move them back under cover where a medic could tend to them. Battle field triage is a bitch.
    I've seen the nice "neat" little entrance wounds made by the 5.56 - the exit wounds, when present) generally (at jungle distances while the projectiles were still in high velocity) were horrendous and the position was unpredictable - they seldom came out of the body in a straight line from the entrance wound. Never "autopsied" one of the dead to see what was happening inside, but it couldn't have been good. Also saw pieces of meat blasted off of bodies, flesh "flapped", arms and legs nearly severed - probably from unstable rounds. The 7.62x51 M60 FMJ rounds had a tendency to drill neater holes as did the 7.62x39. I've got a couple buddies who have scars showing the AK round's tendency to stay together and drive straight through at close range.
    The Soviets "adopted" the idea for their AK74 5.45x39mm platform and used it pretty successfully in Afganistan. Those projectiles were designed to swap ends at least once, in soft tissue - making a nasty internal mess.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  3. user

    user Active Member

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    Aside from the legalities of treaties purportedly attempting to make war "humane": No question ball ammo will kill; but I suspect that a good deer or varmint hunting "ballistic tip" round would work just as well at full auto and would do a better job eliminating "enemy combatants". On the other hand, there is the primary principle of public contracts: "low bid".
  4. rcairflr

    rcairflr Well-Known Member

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    The Hague convention prohibits the use of small arms ammunition that easily flattens or expands in the body.
  5. Turbo565

    Turbo565 New Member

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    OK, I personally would never shoot a deer with a .223 so naturally,I would not shoot a human with it either. I just finished reading four books on Iraq and Afghanistan war. Our guys are having to shoot these Jihads with at least 12 rounds from .223 and up to 30 rounds to put them down! Unless they get lucky with a head shot. Granted the Jihads are drugged but come on. One shot from their AK puts our guys down?!?! Many or our soldiers are using AK's and M14's just to get even results. Luckily, our guys can carry more ammo but they need it! I am no expert but the truth is in the books. >223 is for Jihad groundhogs. 7.62 or .308 for full size humans.
  6. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

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    Just because it is printed doesn't make it true.
  7. redwing carson

    redwing carson Former Guest

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    They made the claims way back in 1898. The tiny .30 Krag was going to replace the 405 Grs. 45-70 no way. It seems the tiny .28 Cal. Spainish Mausers were too deadly in Cuba. The .277 was considered to replace the .30 Cal in WWII now it is back on the table. The failed civilan varmint round .222 Rem Magnum became the .223 Remington or 5.56 Nato. A new generation of American youth needed to be trained quickly. They also needed lighter ammuntion for airborne units. The .308 and the .45 Acp were replaced with light low recoil weapons such as the .223 and 9MM. The weapon choices are made by politicans and defense contractors it has little to do with picking the correct military weapon. Custer had Trapdoor Spflds. the NDNs had repeaters and some 8MM French Lebel Bolt actions. Only the NDNS were allowed to choose there battle field weapons.:rolleyes:
  8. ignats

    ignats Member

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  9. American Leader

    American Leader Well-Known Member

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    I shoot .223, .22-250, 7.62X39, .30-06, .303, and 7.55X55 and I'm lovin .223 more every day. That little round does kill, is accurate, and is very inexpensive to load. I would have no problem using it on a bunch of them jihadists!;)
  10. Sandman

    Sandman Member

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    That is my opinion as well. If the 7.62 is so much better, why are the countries that traditionally used it moving to a smaller round instead of the U.S. moving (back) to a 7.62?

    Now there might be an argument about the 5.56's application in Afghanistan and Iraq, since the range can be a tad bit longer than the jungles of Vietnam.
  11. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    I'm with SANDMAN - ranges, reduced barrel length in the M4 (16") configuration (lowered muzzle velocities) and heavier projectiles (62 gr.) all limit the effective range. Close-up (CQB) the M4 is a champ and knocks the stuffings out of the teddy bear. At ranges beyond 200 meters - the round becomes less effective. Hence the inclusion of the "designated marksman" with each Infantry squad, equipped with modified M14 he has the range advantage.
  12. reynolds357

    reynolds357 Former Guest

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    That is partly true. The NVA booby traps were designed to wound and take three troops out of the fight instead of 1. It also would usually cause a chopper extraction and give them opportunity to ambush troops and shoot at a chopper. Could be B.S. but I saw a NVA general on the history channel say it.
  13. reynolds357

    reynolds357 Former Guest

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    They both have their place.
  14. BradleyCole09

    BradleyCole09 New Member

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    Fmj is more politically correct makes poititons seem caring just look back at all the effective rounds that were verry good at what they were Ment to do. Early .303 British was designed to un balance an make what would of been a wounding hit become an death sentince. The Russian 7.62 x54R sniper round had a steel rod with a small counter weight that on impact would tumble the bullet inside the target. Then they were disoawed from combat too crule to the enimy.Most people that arnt gun fokes don't like hearing that we aim to kill they want un to stop them without force. Just look at the current rules of engagement. Any and all cartages were designed to kill it's jut about how good ones aim is and if u have items that give u an advantage fmj are cheap to produce ya jhps are better bu they cost more and bullets designed to do there job wel usually cost more than fmjs

    Sorry for long post just my 2 cents
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  15. Albtraum

    Albtraum Active Member

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    Exactly this. I've had enough about the whole; "The bullet is designed to tumble, flip, turn and yaw in the target." Regardless of what it does in the target, or the bullet shape, if it's FMJ, Hollow Point, soft lead nose, or has a plastic nose like Vmax, it is still a 62 grain projectile flying at three thousand feet per second with over 1000 ft/lbs of kinetic energy, and is quite lethal.
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