The Democrats and Israel

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Marlin T, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    I find this article to be pretty scarry in the overall sceme of things, especially considering we are in the middle of a war. I don't have much faith (any faith) in our upcoming president.:( [​IMG]


    January 04, 2009
    The Democrats and Israel

    Ed Lasky

    [FONT=times new roman,times]The ideology of political parties changes over time. Democrats in the South were obdurate in the wake of civil rights reform; that history is all but forgotten. Likewise, Democrats were long considered the party that was most strongly supportive of ties between America and Israel (helped by Harry Truman’s recognition of the founding of the state of Israel).
    [/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times]Now it appears that another shift is happening. Democrats are no longer as supportive of Israel as they have been in the past. I wrote about this dynamic two years ago in an article that analyzed voting patterns in Congress as well as public opinion polls and surveys that sought to examine any correlations between political affiliation and the level of support for ties between America and Israel. The article pointed out a simple , if disconcerting fact, Republicans were far more supportive of Israel than were Democrats.[/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times]Glenn Greenwald (a leftist critic of Israel) wrote an op-ed in the Chicago Sun-Times this weekend that notes a new Rasmussen poll which has received some attention. The trend continues and is more pronounced: Republicans continue to be far more supportive of Israel than are Democrats when asked about the current Israeli action in Gaza in response to thousands of rockets being fired into Israel:[/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times] Not only does Rasmussen find that Americans generally "are closely divided over whether the Jewish state should be taking military action against militants in the Gaza Strip" (44 percent to 41 percent, with 15 percent undecided), but Democratic voters overwhelmingly oppose the Israeli offensive -- by a 24-point margin. By stark contrast, Republicans, as one would expect (in light of their history of supporting virtually any proposed attack on Arabs and Muslims), overwhelmingly support the Israeli bombing campaign (62 percent to 27 percent).[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman,times][/FONT]



    [FONT=times new roman,times][/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]Shmuel Rosner comments[/FONT] that this trend is “not new," hopes that President –elect Obama is not as “naïve” as his supporters are regarding the threats coming from terrorism, and issues a challenge to Democrat leaders to show that their claim that the party is as supportive of Israel as Republicans is supported by the numbers.[/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]I think this commentary can be expanded. To what extent has Barack Obama himself shifted the views of Democrats?[/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]Leaders, especially persuasive ones, can shift the opinions of Americans. Historians have analyzed the efforts of Franklin Delano Roosevelt (one of the Presidents that Barack Obama admires) to shift American public opinion from isolationism toward engagement in the years leading up to the conflict with Naziism and Japanese militarists. [/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]Are we seeing the process in reverse?[/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]Has Barack Obama over the last few years convinced Americans that diplomacy will work with terrorists? That “talk therapy” can work with the likes of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad , Hamas and Hezbollah? That all wars are “dumb wars”? That Iran is not a threat? That high-tech defense programs are a waste of money? That we have to be “even-handed” when dealing with the Palestinians and Israelis (begging the question of how one can be even-handed between a terror regime that hates America and a democratic and Western ally)? That “no one has suffered more than the Palestinians”? As the public heard this rhetoric over the last few years, has their collective consciousness changed?[/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]Has the public already become receptive toward this type of message by years of “education” by an academia that has increasingly become the province of left-wing academics? [/FONT] [/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]What else can be taken from the column and the Rasmussen poll? Greenwald is an influential blogger who writes for Salon but whose views often reflect the views of the left-wing of the blogosphere and the Democratic Party as a whole. He is issuing a clarion call to Democratic politicians: get tough with Israel or their support among Democrats will be put at risk.[/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]This field of inquiry opens up all types of questions regarding political alignment. For example, how long will Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi be able to withstand the pressure coming from her own district (all but contiguous with San Francisco-the epicenter of anti-Israel activity) to take a tough line with Israel?[/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]Stay tuned.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/01/the_democrats_and_israel.html
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
  2. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    God have mercy on us.
    But if we go this way, He won't -
  3. cycloneman

    cycloneman Active Member

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    Tylenol, asprin, moltrin, anything please.
  4. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    Democrats are (generally) more prone to accept the media's portrayal of the situation than are Republicans. Thus, the fact that there has been no reporting on the daily attacks by Hamas on Isael, those attacks did not happen. Therefore, Israel has attacked Gaza with no justification.

    Republicans are more likely to keep up with such happenings and know that Israel has been attacked daily.

    Now, I will don my asbestos suit and await the hue and cry against "generalities."

    Pops
  5. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I got your back, Pops -
    Let 'em come!
  6. Teejay9

    Teejay9 New Member

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    Didn't our upcoming Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton once entertain Mrs. Arafat? That should show some indication of where her sympathies lie. Actually, I'm beginning to have a hard time telling the difference between the two parties anymore. They all seem to be crooks. TJ
  7. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

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    Ya know what? I don't care what country you are, if another country starts shooting off rockets and missles towards you I think that it would be that countries' duty to its citizens to respond to the incursion. Be it the USA getting dive bombed by jet airliners or Hamass taking pot luck shots on Israel the goverment is sworn by duty to defend its people. If Japan began to shoot missles at China or Korea I would expect those countries to respond and to hell what the UN thinks. The UN is an unsignicent body of diplomats with an agenda of a world under one nation rule.
  8. jim summers

    jim summers Active Member

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    I have stated this before and will say it again, Israel will not let anyone just take their liberty's with them, if and when a country goes up against Israel they should understand that Israel WILL take care of business.
  9. cycloneman

    cycloneman Active Member

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    here ya jim. I've always heard that. What ever you throw at Isreal they come back
    10x harder. It's their formula.
  10. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    Pops, you're right on with your 'generalities'... :D

    I am reminded of why Air America, Liberal talk radio, has bankrupted 3 times. Liberals do not want to stay tuned to events as they happen. Talking about current events would require far too much cognitive thought and reasoning. Liberals want to view the news in passing, accept it as fact and keep on going... :eek:

    Conservatives however, support talk radio, actively engage in discussions no matter what the front, and are willing to check the media they receive for validity. :) I hate to be so general but it seems to be true for the primary population of each group. :confused:
  11. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    I am no expert on world affairs so perhaps you could help me out here.

    Your suggesting your Democrats would support the same Palestinians seen on TV celebrating loudly in the streets after the horrific and cowardly 9/11 attacks on the US?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2009
  12. Vladimir

    Vladimir New Member

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    Realistically speaking though the problem is in cases like that there are clear militaries. There aren't in Palestine, and so significantly more civilians are killed. It hardly makes Israel the bad guy (actually just makes the bad guys even worse), but its also extremely understandable why their action gets so much more attention and scrutiny. Unfortunately though the realistic fact is the burden is on us... the burden to carefully differentiate is on Israel in their territory, the same burden is on us in Afghanistan and Iraq, etc.

    One of the problems is Israel makes no excuses, which is admirable, but hardly looks good. We kill any civilians and there are mass apologies, huge payouts, huge denials... Israel kills civilians and blames it on Hamas. Sure it is Hamas' fault, but obviously one reaction is going to gather a lot more scrutiny than the other.
  13. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    My son seems to have an attention span of about 30 seconds but that's because he's 20 months old. Most Americans' attention span regarding world events is not much longer...

    So, yes... If one is perceived as a victim through the media, the past is the past and let's just focus on today for most here who walk to the Liberal line. :(
  14. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Is it possible for a group to set up a rocket launching facility in the suburbs of Niagra to fire rockets into Canada without the neighbors in NY knowing about it?
    No way!
    Good grief, they would be all OVER them, either directly or by calling every authority with a telephone, letting them know what the hack is happening in THEIR neighborhood.

    Yet, when Palastinian terrorists set up operations in urban areas bordering Israel, it is assumed the civilians they hide among are INNOCENT. Folks, if they were TRULY innocent they would be fighting AGAINST any such operation in their neighborhood.

    IOW, when the civilian populace allows THEIR neighborhood to be used as a base to launch terrorist attacks, they cease to be innocent and become part of the problem. Collateral damage is very regretable, as is the loss of ANY life, but this is not the horror story it is made out to be, where poor un-involved civilians are being killed by those evil Israelis.
  15. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

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    And just what would be the Canadian response? The Niagra river is a pretty far peice to be shootin arrows and catapulting dead moose carcasus back at us?
  16. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

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    Cognitive thought?:confused: Oh yeah, you're right pony, the facts keep getting in the way.:rolleyes:

    Well we saw a the results first hand with the election and the lack of cognitive thought, lack of general knowledge of events, why would the liberals stance toward Israel be any more informed?
  17. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I believe a Trebuchet would get a moose across the river.
    Just aboot, anyway.

    Seriously, the Canadian military has some FINE people in it; it has been my pleasure to serve with many of them during several different joint operations.
  18. Deathbunny

    Deathbunny Former Guest

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    They don't attack Israel every day. They take alternate Thursdays and holidays off. ;)
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  19. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    I would like to second that. One of my best friends, whose family has been close to my own is a Colonel in the Canadian Army. I cant speak too highly of him or the Canadian armed forces.
  20. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    There has been a growing trend towards antisemitism in this country for some time. This has serious implications about how strongly we will be aligned with Israel in the future. I believe I know the reason for this trend but I fear my explanation is not very politically correct. I will be accused of bigotry and claiming that conservatives have the market cornered on Christianity. However I'm only calling it how I see it.

    I believe the underlying philosophy of the left has evolved into a marxist world view. Marxism is inherently atheist. Certainly many liberals still attend churches and profess to believe the basic tenets of the faith, but their interpretation of God-given principles, their concept of right and wrong, have been slowly changing over time. I have seen this even in my own family and it makes me sick. A number of these family members are older and have for years considered themselves Harry Truman style democrats. They long ago bought into the myth that the republican party and conservatives are only for the wealthy and the democrats are for "the little guy". Now as radicals on the left have pushed the democrats toward ever more liberal attitudes these folks have slowly come to enjoy a certain comfort level with the new concepts, as becoming a republican or conservative is repugnant to them.

    A prime example of this is their feelings about abortion. Twenty years ago the idea of legalized abortion appalled them. Now when I debate this issue with these relatives they come back with the same tired old liberal comments like "Well, it prevents back alley abortions" or "Well, I don't believe a woman should have to have the baby in the case of rape or incest". They have lost their moral compass. It wasn't compatible with new left ideology.

    Now every Christian should understand the Jewish roots of their faith. Though there are differences between us, the basic tenets of Christianity bound us to Judaism and the Jewish people. "Those who bless you I will bless, and those who curse you I will curse". But now we hear the buzz from some that Israel has gone too far. You hear sympathy for the poor Palestinians. Worse yet in the workplace you can hear snide comments about Jews, even holocaust denyers. People have taken up the mantra of our enemies-the enemies of Christians and Jews alike. It is easy to see why so many believers are seeing these as the final days. Biblical prophecies about a great deception and people falling away from the faith seem to be happening right before our eyes.

    I still have faith in the good people of this country but I see serious irreconcilable difference among our citizens. The factions forged by the infiltration of communism into our institutions have brought us to an impasse. As I see it we are past the point of civilized debate; the passions are too strong. The battle lines are drawn between those advocating a free market, individual liberty, justice, and morality in our laws and policies and those who want collectivism, secular humanism, and abandonment of the belief in Creator-endowed inalienable rights which inspired our constitution.

    Something HAS to give. It's time to take a stand. I no longer believe there is room in this country for both sides. We must not compromise...and we MUST NOT abandon Israel.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
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