This is just what the closet-commies are waiting for

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bcj1755, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

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    Ill. state police: 1 killed in church shooting


    By JIM SUHR, Associated Press Writer Jim Suhr, Associated Press Writer – 5 mins ago
    Gunman opens fire at church, killing pastor First Baptist Church of Maryville – A gunman opened fire at an Illinois church Sunday, killing the pastor and wounding several parishioners, …

    MARYVILLE, Ill. – A gunman killed a minister during a church service Sunday morning and two members of the congregation were injured, Illinois state police said.

    Master Trooper Ralph Timmins said the man walked down the aisle during the early service at First Baptist Church in Maryville, a suburb of St. Louis, Mo.

    He said the man exchanged words with pastor Fred Winters, pulled out a .45-caliber handgun and shot Winters once, fatally wounding him, before the gun jammed.

    The attacker then pulled out a knife and wounded himself.

    Churchgoers tried to subdue the attacker and two of them suffered minor injuries, Timmins said.

    Timmins said officials didn't know if Winters and the suspect knew each other.

    Winters, a father of two who had led First Baptist for nearly 22 years, was the former president of the Illinois Baptist State Association and an adjunct professor for Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, according to the church's Web site.

    "Our great God is not surprised by this, or anything," Nate Adams, executive director of the Illinois Baptist State Association, said in a statement. "That He allows evil and free will to have their way in tragedies like this is a mystery in many ways. But we know we can trust Him no matter what, and draw close to Him in any circumstances."

    Maryville is about 20 miles northeast of St. Louis.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/church_shooting

    A couple more sad tragidies like this, and the gov't will start screaming for us to turn over our guns:mad::mad: I really LOVE how the press goes out of their way to call this whackjob a "gunman." I also notice how they try to downplay the fact that the people who tried to "subdue" the guy "only" suffered "minor injuries" from his knife, but they yet again go out of their way to mention that he killed the pastor with a gun and imply that the only reason more people weren't killed was because his gun jammed. *sarcasm ON* Oh yeah, the press is fair and impartial and is in no way left-leaning *sarcasm OFF*
  2. Haligan

    Haligan Well-Known Member

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    Damn it your right. The anti's have been waiting since election day for this type of headline. Anything like this is gonna get em all riled up. The worst part of this is their's nothing we can do about it.:mad::mad::mad:
  3. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    It's always sad when this kind of thing happens. There are some messed up folks in this world and no amount of regulation is going to stop them.

    There is the other side of this that should be considered. Illinois has been debating the concealed weapons issue for some time. Will this incident help or hurt that effort? I'm sure arguments will be made both ways.
  4. 4EvrLearning

    4EvrLearning New Member

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    Gun issues and political issues aside, my heart breaks for everyone involved. I know this is just one violent incident out of thousands that happen in a day, but it just struck me particularly hard.
  5. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

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    Yeah there is Haligan.....carry armed in church. The churches too are going to have to make a decision since it is private property, a CCW is not required....although most churches have plenty of those able to carry concealed, it's time they think about not being lambs for the slaughter.

    Wouldn't it be nice to see a headline that says that an armed church go'er took out a crazed, armed, intruder. See that headline several times and our "representatives" (oxy-moron) wouldn't have their same following. It's time the peaceful, God fearing, honest folks get riled up or at least wake up! When are more folks going to be sheep dogs?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2009
  6. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    Sarge, our pastor told the congregation that it was getting bad and he wanted to start locking the door during the service. He then said, "I'm not going to go as far as asking for security just yet." I told him later that day, "you know, if I'm not here or at work I generally have a gun on me at all times." He responds, "and you can here too."

    I think more churches are going to start making the decision to allow carry, especially after the Colorado church incident where the attacker was killed before he could do much harm.
  7. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

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    We don't know what was going on. For a man to walk down the asle during a church service and shoot the Paster in front of everyone means he was pi$$ed. I wonder what triggered this gunman to do this. Just because a person is a pastor doesn't mean he is holy. I wouldn't be suprised if the pastor used his authority in some terrible way. I am not saying that taking the law in your own hands is right. I would love to know what the Pastor did.
  8. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

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    Bingo! The "news" story concentrated only on the fact that this guy shot the pastor, not any of the background.
  9. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

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    right. If this gunman was crazy he would have opened fire to everyone in the service. No that's not what he did. He focused his rage aganist the Pastor. The gunman could have killed the pastor anywhere, in his home or his car. The fact that he killed the pastor while service was going on tells me the gunman was not only mad at the pastor but also with what he stood for or behind. IMO this was a passionate killing. Which leads me to believe the pastors ding dong was probably involved. Just my guess.
  10. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    I hate to guess what might have transpired beforehand but my first thought was dealing with the common role of pastors as marriage counselors. That situation could turn someone against a pastor real quick as well.
  11. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

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    Here's more info on this....

    Police: Ill. pastor deflected gunshot with Bible


    By JIM SUHR, Associated Press Writer Jim Suhr, Associated Press Writer – 17 mins ago
    People stand outside of First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill. Sunday March 8, AP – People stand outside of First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill. Sunday March 8, 2009 after a man killed …


    MARYVILLE, Ill. – A pastor shot and killed during his Sunday sermon deflected the first of the gunman's four rounds with a Bible, sending a confetti-like spray of paper into the air in a horrifying scene that congregants initially thought was a skit, police said.

    The gunman strode down the aisle of the sprawling First Baptist Church shortly after 8 a.m. and briefly spoke with The Rev. Fred Winters, then pulled out a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol and began firing until it jammed, Illinois State Police Director Larry Trent said. Churchgoers wrestled the gunman to the ground as he waved a knife, slashing himself and two other people, Trent said.

    None of the about 150 congregants seemed to recognize the gunman and investigators do not know details of Winters' conversation with him, but they planned to review an audio recording of the service, Trent said. The service was not videotaped.

    "We thought it was part of a drama skit ... when he shot, what you saw was confetti," said congregant Linda Cunningham, whose husband is a minister of adult education at the church. "We just sat there waiting for what comes next, not realizing that he had wounded the pastor."

    Winters had stood on an elevated platform to deliver his sermon about finding happiness in the workplace and managed to run halfway down the sanctuary's side aisle before collapsing, Cunningham said.

    Two congregants tackled the gunman as he pulled the 4-inch knife, and all three were stabbed, police said. The gunman suffered "a pretty serious wound to the neck" while one congregant had lower back wounds, Trent said.

    Congregants knocked the gunman between sets of pews, then held him down until police arrived, said church member Don Bohley, who was just outside the sanctuary when the shooting began.

    "People came running out and told us to call 911," said Bohley, 72.

    Winters was pronounced dead at Anderson Hospital, hospital spokeswoman Natalie Head said.

    Authorities didn't know whether Winters, a married father of two who had led the church for nearly 22 years, knew the gunman. Police described the gunman as a 27-year-old from nearby Troy but would not release his name pending possible charges.

    Trent said investigators had not immediately uncovered evidence of a criminal background or mental illness.

    "We don't know the relationship (between the gunman and pastor), why he's here or what the circumstances came about that caused him in the first place to be here," said Illinois State Police Master Trooper Ralph Timmins.

    The Rev. Mark Jones, another pastor at First Baptist, said he briefly saw the gunman but not the shooting, though he heard a sound like miniature firecrackers.

    "We have no idea what this guy's motives were," Jones said outside the church.

    The gunman and 39-year-old congregant Terry Bullard underwent surgery at St. Louis University Hospital and were in serious condition Sunday evening, spokeswoman Laura Keller said. The other victim, Keith Melton, was treated and released from Gateway Regional Medical Center.

    "I would call it heroic," Trent said. "While many understandably were stuck to their seats, they took to action."

    First Baptist had an average attendance of 32 people when Winters became senior pastor in 1987; it now has about 1,200 members, according to the church's Web site. Winters also was former president of the Illinois Baptist State Association and an adjunct professor for Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, according to the site.

    "Our great God is not surprised by this, or anything," Nate Adams, executive director of the Illinois Baptist State Association, said in a statement. "That He allows evil and free will to have their way in tragedies like this is a mystery in many ways."

    The red brick church sits along a busy two-lane highway on the east side of Maryville, a fast-growing village of more than 7,000 about 20 miles northeast of St. Louis. A farm sits directly across from the church, but subdivisions of newer homes can be seen from every side.

    "Things like this just don't happen in Maryville," Mayor Larry Gulledge said. "We've lost one the pillars of our community, one of our leaders."

    Sharla Dryden, 62, pulled into the church parking lot for a 9:30 a.m. service Sunday to see "just a lot of chaos, lot of police, fire, and people just devastated."

    "I would have been devastated if anyone had been shot, but to hear it was the pastor was terrible," Dryden said. "You just never expect this to happen at a church."

    At Winters' two-story brick home in Edwardsville, several friends gathered to pay their respects but declined comment. Family members also declined comment.

    A statement on First Baptist's Web site asked for prayers for Winters' family, the congregants who tackled the gunman, the gunman and his family, and church members.

    More than 20 investigators remained inside the church hours after the shooting, said First Baptist spokesman Marty King. An evening prayer service was planned for members at Metro Community Church in nearby Edwardsville.

    Last month, a man shot and killed himself in front of a cross inside televangelist Robert H. Schuller's Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, Calif. In November, a gunman killed his estranged wife in a New Jersey church vestibule as Sunday services let out.

    In July, two people were killed and six wounded in a shooting rampage at the Tennessee Valley United Unitarian Church in Knoxville, Tenn. An out-of-work truck driver who police say targeted the church for its liberal leanings pleaded guilty to the shootings and was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

    ___

    On the Net:

    First Baptist: http://www.fbmaryville.org/

    ___

    Associated Press writers Betsy Taylor and Jim Salter contributed to this report.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090308/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting


    Notice how at the end the "reporter" dredges up recent shootings. Just more attempts to make guns look evil. Now how do you think it would have been reported if it happened in a concealed carry state and a member of the congregation used a concealed pistol to stop the attack?
  12. glocknut

    glocknut New Member

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    Getting pretty bad when we start thinking about what the pastor did first before we think the gunman might just be a nutcase.

    I'm sure the guy had plenty of opportunity to shoot the pastor outside of a church session...but no, he chose to do it DURING a church session. In my book that makes him a NUTCASE!!!

    mike
    gn
  13. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

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    And here's yet more for the closet-commies to point to when they ban our guns in the name of "safety".....

    10 shot, killed in south Ala. towns; shooter dead


    By JESSICA GRESKO, Associated Press Writer Jessica Gresko, Associated Press Writer – 3 mins ago
    An unidentified man is reflected in a storefront window that was shot during the AP – An unidentified man is reflected in a storefront window that was shot during the shooting spree in Samson, …

    SAMSON, Ala. – A gunman went on a shooting spree in two neighboring south Alabama towns Tuesday, killing nine people before he shot himself at a metals plant, authorities said.

    Police are investigating at least four separate shootings, all believed to be done by one gunman, whose name was not released, the Alabama Department of Safety said in a statement.

    The shootings began late in the afternoon in Samson. The shooter killed five people in one home and one each in two other homes.

    The gunman also shot at a state trooper's car, striking the vehicle seven times and wounding the trooper with broken glass.

    He then killed someone at a Samson supply store and another person at a service station.

    Samson contractor Greg McCullough said he was pumping gas at the station when the gunman opened fire, killing a woman coming out of the service station and wounding McCullough in the shoulder and arm with bullet fragments that struck his truck and the pump.

    "I first thought it was somebody playing," he said. He said the gunman roared into the parking lot and slammed on his brakes. Then he saw the rifle.

    He said the gunman fired and the rifle appeared to jam, then he "went back to firing." Then he drove off.

    McCullough, a father of two, said he tried to help the woman who was shot and yelled for someone to call an ambulance.

    "I'm just in awe that something like this could take place. That someone could do such a thing. It's just shocking," McCullough told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

    Police pursued the gunman Reliable Metal Products just north of Geneva, about a dozen miles southeast of Samson, where he fired an estimated 30 rounds, the safety department said. One of the bullets hit Geneva Police Chief Frankie Lindsey, who was saved by his bullet proof vest.

    The statement says the gunman then went in the plant and shot himself. His name was not released.

    The gunman had worked at Reliable Metal, said state Rep. Warren Beck, a Republican whose district includes Geneva.

    "My secretary heard gunfire everywhere," he said. "This is one of the most tragic events ever in Geneva County."

    State Sen. Harri Anne Smith, R-Slocomb, said some of those killed in Samson were sitting outside.

    "He was just driving down the street shooting at people sitting on their porches," she said. "A family was just sitting on the porch and they were shot."

    The department of safety said state fire marshals are investigating the scene of a burned house in Coffee County where one body was found. The scene is believed to be involved in this series of incidents.

    Reliable Metal Products makes grills and vents for heating and AC systems, mainly for hotels. A call to a person who answered the phone at the plant said no one could talk about the shooting.

    The towns of Geneva and Samson are roughly 30 miles south of Fort Rucker, near the Florida border in southeast Alabama. Geneva's population is about 4,400 and Samson, 2,000.

    Smith and Beck were at the Statehouse when state troopers came to get them and took them to Geneva County. Smith said the governor's office is sending resources and state troopers are setting up a command post.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/south_alabama_shootings


    You know they're gonna try to lump all of us in with whackadoos like this:rolleyes::mad::mad::mad::mad:
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