To Moly or Not to Moly

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Guest, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Kdubya
    Kdubya
    Posts: 4
    (2/21/01 9:34:46 pm)
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    Gee, I sure like breaking in new boards!

    Gang - I was impressed a couple years ago with all the hype on moly coated bullets and bores. Decided it was just the ticket for what I wanted to do in the long days of heat here in Ariz. and would really benefit my shooting program. Now I'm begining to wonder if it is worth all the hassle. What do you think - anyone else using the stuff?

    The bores are fairly cured now, and if they were good, clean bores to start with, the cleanup time and effort seems to be less. On some of the older rifles, I still have copper stain oozing out for days on end. Some people swear by the Outer's Foul Out system, however, I've got 2 of them and can't get very good results with them. Just have to use more elbow grease, solvents, nylon brushes (haven't stuck a bronze brush in the bores in a long time) and patches. Always try to have the last bit of copper stain gone prior to re-treating with moly patches, just before shooting. Having read that moly can attack the bore if left for long periods, I apply a coat of fast drying penetrant oil when storing in the vault before shooting.
    I guess the bottom line is - sure seems to be a lot of work and mess. Haven't seen that much gain in the accuracy department, but did notice it takes more powder to attain the same velocity vs uncoated bores and bullets. I worry about moly buildup in streaks and patches down the bore in time, so the rifles really get scrubbed between benchrest sessions.
    Maybe I'm being too impatient, but I'm giving serious thoughts to going back to plain ol' uncoated bullets and nice, shiny bores.
    Keep off the Ridgeline!!

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 49
    (2/21/01 10:18:50 pm)
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    I haven't experemented with the Moly stuff yet however, I
    was going to try the stuff that you coat the bullets with,
    is Moly similar to what the coating on the Black Talons
    had on them?

    Tac

    Kdubya
    Kdubya
    Posts: 5
    (2/21/01 11:07:28 pm)
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    TAC -
    I'm not sure what the coating is on the Winchester or Barnes bullets - it's something that gets baked on, not just sprayed or wiped on.
    The stuff I use comes in a powder form. You put the bullets in a tumbler bowl (that won't be used for anything else again!) with the measured powder, then let it run for a few hours. They say a couple hours, however, found that to be unsatisfactory. Then it is a matter of shaking any excess off (Momma's tea sifter works great, if she doesn't catch you and you can hide it in the gunroom), then loading in the case. Naturally, your hands get coated in the process, along with everything you touch! Tried using tweezers to pick up and seat the bullets prior to being shoved up the bullet seater die - doesn't work that well for me, but then again, I never laid claim to perfect coordination, either.
    I've never tried the spray moly, other than to carefully hit a spot or two in the action for lubricity - that works great!
    When swabbing down the bores, I use a liquid moly from Midway that comes in a squeeze dispenser bottle and apply directly to the patch, then short stroke it down the bore, apply more after exiting the muzzle, and short stroke back to breech. Let it sit for a couple of hours for the aromatics to evaporate, then run another clean patch to remove excess. Like I say, this doesn't happen until the night before the shooting.
    Keep off the Ridgeline!!

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 50
    (2/21/01 11:57:06 pm)
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    I was wondering if the process would be good for a carry
    gun.

    Tac

    Kdubya
    Kdubya
    Posts: 6
    (2/23/01 4:23:20 pm)
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    Dunno, Tac -
    It certainly should ease the cleaning after shooting jacketed bullets - don't know what effect it would have on lead slugs, but then again, doubt seriously if anything other than jacketed HP's would be carried.
    It takes a bit to condition the bore. Need to start with as pristine clean bore as possible, then follow directions of the moly lube manufacturer.
    The stuff provided by Win and Barnes appears to be a teflon coating. With a cured barrel, these should work fairly well. I wouldn't use any home coated bullets because of the coating rubbing off in the cartridge holders.
    Might give consideration to factory loads for carry and using home coated for practice - be a lot cheaper that way!

    Ken
    Keep off the Ridgeline!!

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 48
    (3/13/01 8:12:46 pm)
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    Don't know if any body here is old enough to remember Alberts/Taurus swaged lead bullets from the mid 80s Jerry Alberts made and marketed A moly/graphite coated line of bullets, they were accurate and cheap, but A divorce ended His career, You could gain 50 F.P.S. from using His bullets on Chronograph,no leading until somewhere around 1200 F.P.S. with soft swaged bullets, wish someone would market them again,
    (His Wife took up with A Pro Wrestler named Rick Flair,)

    Kdubya
    Moderator
    Posts: 31
    (3/18/01 11:09:55 pm)
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    I've seen several different bullet manufacturers turning out coated lead bullets now - haven't tried any of them yet.
    You're right, Tye - I noticed a 100-200 fps drop in velocity with my various rifle loads (most of which were loaded around 3000 fps originally) using the moly coated bullets. Had to increase the powder levels accordingly to get back to where I wanted the velocities to be. That's another negative for moly coating, in my book. Another is that MOST moly coatings are corrosive if left in the bore for any length of time. I scrub the dickens out of mine after shooting, then run a good penetrating oil in. Only moly prep the bore just prior to shooting. Using uncoated slugs, I normally check the zero with 5 rounds just before going on the hunting trip and leave the bore fouled until after the hunt is over. Can't do that with most moly compounds, especially if the weather is damp or wet.
    The only redeeming factor for moly seems to be lowered chamber pressures with equal velocity loadings. That has great merit here in the desert when the summer tempratures get rather warm. I would like to keep the powder charges the same year 'round and not have to jockey them for the seasons. When using uncoated bullets, I've really noticed a velocity jump of approx. 200 fps with corresponding pressure signs when shooting loads developed in the winter/spring and then shooting in the summer.
    Keep off the Ridgeline!!

    davem3
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (7/13/01 1:09:02 am)
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    Ihave a rotary tumbler so I use an extra cly. with moly & steel shot (bb's) then put the bullets in a tube sock & run them back & forth to remove excess. I can't tell any major improvement in accuracy and am about ready to give it up. Probably my homemade tumbler & methods are the real problem. Only real improvement was in .22LR - dumped 2 boxes in & tumbled for 10 min.--Don't know about accuracy but the empty cases sure did extract nice!

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 196
    (7/13/01 5:18:42 am)
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    KW, I have not had enough time to do an in-depth analysis /comparison, but in the rifles in which I've used the Moly/Kote bullets, have shown dramatic gains in accuracy and ease of cleaning,the first was an AR-10, and the other was A 100+year old Krag/Jorgenson, the AR was broken in with Moly/Kote bullets using St.Clair Intnl.s instuctions for breaking in A new Bbl. with Moly,and the Krag was set up by using St.Clair's instructions for conditioning older barrels, and while I am thinking of it, there is A wax You can apply to Moly/Kote bullets that will eliminate the mess, but some BR shooters have expressed problems with Carnauba build up in Bbl.
    My advice is try it, and if it works....Great! and if it doesn't work.....Great! You've still had fun shooting,
    Ol' Tye,
    (I still remember the original "Molly Bee", from Ernie Ford's T.V.show, now She was A Beauty!)
    If Heaven ain't got A loading bench.....I'm going to Hell,

    kdubaz
    Moderator
    Posts: 243
    (7/13/01 12:09:57 pm)
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    Darn, Tye -

    Thought I was the only person alive that remembered the Ernie Ford show - One of my most favorite male singers! "16 Tons" still knocks around in the brain pan.

    I have determined to give up on Moly Cote - never found any real advantages with the firearms I shoot and the preparation/handling/cleanup just not worth the effort.

    I've been turned on to a new product out of Calif. made by Microlon, called "Gun Juice". It is an oil-less lubricant that comes as a liquid (highly aromatic) that dries to a dry film. Was very dubious at first of its acclaimed benefits, however, after some usage, now feel its pretty good stuff! Recommeds the bore be cleaned of previous lubricants to extent possible (I used patches of Gun Scrubber followed by dry patches) then coat bore with liberal saturated patch. Let dry, then fire a round. Shot should be above normal POI. Use saturated patch and dry patch to clean, run wet patch and shoot again. Continue process until shots stop climbing and begin to group. Bore is now conditioned. Clean normally to remove powder/copper fouling and wet patch bore before storing.

    Several rifles I have treated thus far have greatly improved accuracy with standard copper bullets and cleaning seems a tad easier, also. You can use this stuff to coat the entire rifle (wipe down all exposed parts, bolt included, with last bore patch - stuff really goes a long way!) for a dry protective coating. It is sorta costly, but I think it is something that has great potential.
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    shooter22
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 176
    (7/14/01 1:19:31 pm)
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    I have not read every word of the posts, but had a question. Is anybody using both bore coating moly and coated bullets? I saw an article with a guy doing pressure and velocity research with moly. He tested without moly totally, barrel coated with non coated bullets, clean barrel, with caoted bullets and, coated barrel with coated bullets. His findings stated that the velocity and pressures were the same in the uncoated barrel with non coated bullets as that with the coated barrel and coated bullets. Strange but that is the results. He then found reduced pressure and velocity with the coated barrel and plain bullet as well as the coated bullets and plain barrel. I would think that once the barrel is treated by administering moly or firecoated(shooting coated bullets), very light cleaning is needed. Some data has even stated that solvents can break the moly coating and render it useless. If you have heard of differing data, I would be happy to hear it, as I too am still trying to figure this moly thing out. I have found that my guns like the treated bullets better than treated barrels.

    SHOOTER22

    eapples
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (1/30/03 4:24:37 pm)
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    It's a bit of an old post, but I felt compelled to respond.

    I moly coated all my lead bullets (38 special and 45acp) because I found that it made cleaning and lead removal go easier.

    I did not focus on accuracy, because it's not a problem for me. I still have a long way to go with the basics of trigger control and sight alignment.

    Eapples <;-)

    Dry Powder
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (2/3/03 2:23:44 pm)
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    The principal advantages Marketed with MolyBullets initially

    1) Easier cleaning ................ Not true and adds
    complications if you do use
    some copper coated bullets
    2)Higher Velocities ................ Questionable but generally
    more powder for slower
    speeds
    3)More Accurate ................... Most benchresters back to
    copper (some still love Moly)
    4)More expensive .................. Good for the industry

    My experience on two guns was not positive and I am
    skeptical about any ... new .. coatings I am going to wait.

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1959
    (2/3/03 3:22:10 pm)
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    You're pretty close to my thoughts on the matter, Dry Powder -

    For the expense (minimal) and the mess (maximumized) of using moly, I can't really see that much in added benefits. As you say, the less friction just increased the powder charges to pull the loads up to former velocities. The accuracy picture is yet to be determined - can't see much improvement over non-moly'd bullets. The biggest negative is the persistent buildup in the barrel which led to uneven deposits in my barrels and made cleaning a bitch.

    The use of moly on cast bullets are probably of better benefit in reducing the leading. I really don't shoot enough cast bullets to make that determination, tho.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"
  2. sonsofwarfounder

    sonsofwarfounder New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    10
    hey if your having problems with the moly coating sticking in your barrel, try taking a cartridge and take the projectile out carefully then load the cartridge with a little more powder about 50 grains more on top of the existing powder. put the road in so the powder doesnt spill and fire away (has to be fire upwards obviously) thats what they teach us marine recon snipers to do and after a few back to back rounds like that it heats the coating up for it to be IMMEDIATELY CLEANED!!!!!!!!!! but personally id rather have the coating in my barrel for the simplest of reason, Its protects your barrel from wear and tear from brass rounds (technically its not brass its teflon coated with copper oxide) epanding and heating your barrel, it also allows the next round to fire more accurately by adding more coating. Yes you need to clean your barrel or IT WILL CLOG. Dont BE a wise ass and think that wont happen. Seen a few FNG's not clean there 308n after shooting and it damn near blew up in there face. Ive been behind the gun for 10 years in the corps, ive instructed the same as i said and will continue to say the same. Wheather u want to hunt, target or even competition shoot like i do then use a moly coated boat tailed bullet, FMJ or JHP!!!!
    Semper FI
    You have any questions email using username then add @yahoo.com
    -OUT
  3. sonsofwarfounder

    sonsofwarfounder New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    10
    This just dawnd on me, are you shooting moly coated bullets thru a NON moly coated barrel?? if you are thats the reason for your deposits and it being so hard to clean. Its pointless and stupid to shoot moly coated bullets thru a non moly coated barrel. Try what i said with the loading up a cartridge with no projectile and fire it to heat the moly up. but u need to clean it immediately it may take a few times. To moly coat you barrel at a reasonable price go to this site. We us them in the corps. www.msmoly.com
    S/F
  4. larriesrem7

    larriesrem7 New Member

    Joined:
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    GREAT USA
    Hi ,, FNG here, was reading your post about molly and your experiance as a sniper, I, myself am no sniper, but have qualified expert on every thing I shot or threw in the military, usually 38 to 40 out of forty. And foremost thank you for your service!!!!!!!!!! Back to discussion on molly, Long story short- You cant beat a molly coated bullet , my favorite is the sierra hpbt my 7 rem mag keeps 3" grp at 500 yds average drop of 18 to 26 inches depending on molsture/ density of air 140 grn, I have a friend I pay to load my ammo that shoots competition, needless to say I got hooked, I do love my 7mm rem 700 BDL.
  5. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Well-Known Member

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    Hey not to rain on your parade but you do realize this thread is 8 years old right? And was brought to life again by someone 3 years ago? I love that you are checking us out and reading up, but really?

    Hey welcome to the forum man. But lets leave dead threads dead though, ok?
  6. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    And moly aint the cats meow like folks thought it was gonna be anyway. Its ok if thats all you shoot. Just the same as regular jacketed is just as good if thats all you shoot. Problem is mixing the 2 and removing the moly from inside the barrel is next to impossible. Look at some of the Extreme LR shooters today some of them have pioneered cartridges like the 6XC, and the 6 ExtremeLR. How many of them are actually using moly bullets?? Not very many. In fact most of them are using Berger VLDs or Clinch Rivers and they dont even make either of them in moly. If you want a moly VLD or a Moly clinch river bullet you hafta put it on yourself in a moly box and tumbler.
  7. myfriendis410

    myfriendis410 Member

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    I worked with moly close to ten years ago and came away with one conclusion: it had to be suggested by the powder manufacturers! I saw a 100-200 fps drop in velocity in my 7mm rem mag and had to bump the powder charge up by 5% to bring it up to 3,000 fps. I got the same level of accuracy out of the coated bullets. I decided it was a waste of time.
  8. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    The reason for that is the reduction in friction between the bore and bullet thus reducing the working pressure of the load. Folk generally think that would cause the opposite but they are wrong. Powder burn depends on pressure and pressure produces velocity.. Thats why it was taking more powder with moly to produce the same pressures as less powder and non moly projectiles. Same holds true for finely lapped bores too., except they are generally vastly more accurate then non lapped so lapping is a no brainer.
  9. myfriendis410

    myfriendis410 Member

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    Except that the original reasoning was to reduce throat erosion and increasing barrel life. Obviously if you lower the velocity (pressure) you will increase barrel life, at the expense of downrange energy. If you bump up the powder charge you are simply back at the same pressure levels with no gain whatsoever, and less rounds loaded from a pound of powder. Like I said......
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