tracing my 1944 remington rand 1911 a1

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by gotdust, May 13, 2012.

  1. gotdust

    gotdust New Member

    May 12, 2012
    is there anyway to trace my 1944 remington rand 1911 A1 to see who it was issued to? thanks
  2. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Feb 9, 2001
    Here at TFF

  3. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

    Jul 30, 2009
    Not really; and you really would not want to even try do so if it were possible.

    If its is genuine, it should be marked "United States Property" (or with words of the same effective meaning) on the right side of the frame just above the serial number. {Military slides are often found on commercial frames.}

    Legal title to many U S military pistols was transferred by the U S Government. Others were furnished to US allies under a "lend-lease" program, never returned, and the records lost or obscured. However many (if not most) of these pistols that are currently in civilian hands are in fact stolen or lost U S Government Property. It is for the afore-stated factual reason that the bill of sale for U S Military firearms sold by the US Government (DCM, CMP, etc.) admonishes the buyer to retain the bill of sale as proof of ownership, as its loss (and your subsequent inability to prove legitimate title) could result in the confiscation of the firearm.

    Fortunately, historically such confiscations have usually been limited to firearms that the U S Govt. never sold to civilians. Most government records for the disposition firearms, that were manufactured over 55 years ago; either, no longer exist or are obscured and not readily accessible. Thus, historically, the U S Government has turned a blind eye to their questionable possession if you do not have a bill of sale.

    This practice or policy might change in the future. The best practice is "Don't ask" unless you have a government bill of sale.
  4. rogertc1

    rogertc1 Member

    Apr 11, 2012
    I got my US Property Remmy 1911 from my father. He got it in 1963 along with a M1 Carbine and a Colt 1917.
    He paid $17.00 thru a NRA instructors program back then. He got them at the Rock Island Arsenal, IL. as so many others did back then.
    PooPoo Guns can be stamped US Proverty and they won't consficate it...silly. You don't need any origional transfer records. LOL
  5. SF Mike

    SF Mike New Member

    Jan 18, 2005
    Pistols especially, and rifles also, were unit property.
    They can have been issued dozens of times over to different individuals.
    In the 60s a brand new 1911A1 was $25 at gunshows.

    Zillions exist, all marked US Property.
    I snuck one home, kept it for years and gave it to a buddy.
    It was from the black market-who knows where it originated.
    I'd have been in trouble if caught smuggling it.
  6. TheGunClinger

    TheGunClinger Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Maybe you could give us the Ser# and we might be able to tell you something about the weapon. Pictures wouldnt suck in the least also.
  7. dcriner

    dcriner Member

    Apr 18, 2011
    I was in a unit that had perhaps 200 rifles. Yes, they were assigned to individuals - and the assignments changed every year or so. Written records were surely kept at the unit level, but not above that. So, the answer is No.
  8. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2004
    Goodyear, Arizona
    As already been posted, unit records are destroyed after a period of time. After a person has left the unit there is no longer a need for the records. With the serial number someone with the proper references might be able to identify the first shipping point, be it a stateside post or a Port of Embarkation.
  9. dcriner

    dcriner Member

    Apr 18, 2011
    The serial number of my Navy-assigned 1903 Springfield rifle was 314021. That was over 50 years ago. I remember the serial number (I was required to), but I'll pretty much guarantee you that the government cannot connect it to me today.
  10. Battery

    Battery New Member

    Jul 14, 2012
    I have a remington rand w/ ser. # 132xxxx that I beleive to have been produced around 1943. The odd thing is it is not stamped "property of US Govt....". Does anyone have any information? Every model I have found is stamped "the property of....". The barrell is a "high Standard"...

    I would appreciate any info...
  11. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

    Jul 30, 2009
    I have encountered what you describe before. As I did not have possession of the pistol, but for a few minutes, I was unable to definitively form an opinion as to the origin of the receiver which was in the correct serial number range for a RR, just as yours is.

    It would help greatly if you would field strip the pistol down to the receiver (including removing the grips) and get some really detailed, clear close-up pics of any and all details; especially any markings anywhere they can be found. {Put something, like a small piece of blackened masking tape over the last 2 or 3 serial # digits.}
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  12. Battery

    Battery New Member

    Jul 14, 2012
    Both Grips have a "K" within a star with the # 7 on one grip & the # 12 on the other grip. Left side of frame: "FJA" abover trigger; "P" next to the clip release button & the #9 stamped within the slide rail. Right side of frame: appears to be a cannon cartouch as well as the ser # 132xxxx; also an "F" stamped on upper right of trigger guard. Barrell lug: "HS" on right side indicating a high standard barrell. Left side of barrell lug stamped with "P".

    Thanks for the help.

    Attached Files:

  13. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

    Jul 30, 2009
    Military 1911-A1's are not my field of strong expertise. I have learned little more than the bare basics. I am really not able to give an informed opinion about your pistol from the limited info supplied.

    From the very limited info and clear photo segments you have supplied, this looks like RR frame to me. However, looks are often deceiving, and limited looks can be even more so. It may have been commercially reparkerized and the US PROPERTY mark removed before doing so. I am not saying that such is the case; but such is a possibility. Anyone who actually worked making these guns is in their late 80's, at the youngest, today. Thus, it is not easy to get reliable info from those who worked at RR making 1911-A1's, today. It is known that the "NO.", with "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" above it, was applied in one roll marking operation, and the serial number applied at a later time.

    You were requested to put a tiny piece of something like masking tape that had been blackened over the last 2 or 3 digits of the serial number and supply a clear detailed photo of that area which should include the place where the "NO." serial # pre-mark and "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" mark should be. If either variation of the RR serial number pre-mark ("NO." or "N with small "o" and a line under the "o") is present; then it is likely that the "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" was applied and subsequently removed by someone for some reason.

    As previously stated, this (the many variations of the military 1911 & 1911-A1 Pistol) is not my strong field of expertise; but the pictures requested (lots more of the whole frame and slide) would help in forming an opinion as to what you likely have.

    Postscript: I misspoke. There is enough detail in your next top last picture (which more than fills my computer screen) to see that the "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" mark was ground off and the gun reparkerized. The grinding marks are clearly visible and do not belong there.

    Someone simply unnecessarily devalued an "old war horse".
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  14. Battery

    Battery New Member

    Jul 14, 2012
    I would have to agree with you. The flash of the camera really makes it stand out. Without the flash it just looks like someone had just rubbed the serial number in order to read it. I put about 50 rounds through it last weekend and it shot like a dream.

    Thanks for your help.
  15. TheGunClinger

    TheGunClinger Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Battery, Welcome to the forum. How about posting some really clear pics of the assembled gun from all angles IE, left side, right side, top, rear, ect. This will help. All markings will help us to help you.
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