Two Remington 7400's with accuracy Trouble

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by mikmic2, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. mikmic2

    mikmic2 New Member

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    This year I bought my son a used Remington 7400, with a Bushnell scope on it. We could get two inch groups at 100 yards out of it, so we figure if that's all we can get, we can use it for deer hunting.

    I've been using a single shot 243 Model 600 for deer hunting, that I can get 4shots in nickel sometimes, with regular old cheap Federal Power shot is it???.

    But the last couple of years, a semi auto would of come in handy, as I could of got a couple more deer, had I not had a bolt action.

    Anyways, he says he doesn't like the original wood stock, and he buys an original Remington synthetic stock set, and now his gun is shooting all over the place, and it doesn't matter if the stock is loose or tight. He sold the wood stock on Ebay, and we don't have those anymore.

    Anyways I decide to buy a brand new 7400 at Walmart, because they were only asking $369.00. I take it out to the range, and mind you it's about 5 degrees outside, and I try to sight it in with a known good scope, and the best I can do is get a group that starts out at 5 inches low, then it rises one inch for the next two or three shots, then it's all over the place. But it is dead on on windage, but elevation rises, then it just starts to wander all over the place. So I take the scope that I use off of my 243, make sure my dove tail mount on the receiver is tight, make sure the rings are tight, and I try again, and it's all over the place. It only takes the gun about 5 minutes to completely cool after 5 or 6 shots, in this weather. \

    Anyways, I read somewhere about the synthetic stocks putting to much tension on the barrel, and as the barrel warms up, your shots will wander. So I take his stock and whittle some around where it meets the receiver, so I can tell that the screw up front of the forend, and the forend spring are the only thing touching the gun. So basically I now have a free floating barrel. No luck same thing with his gun, so I decide to take his stock and put it on mine, and no luck, but it is much better then before when if I tightened the forend it would rise 13 inches, and if I would loosen it, it would drop 13 inches.

    So I decide to send mine into Remington, because it's still under warranty. They tell me to send it to Remington, them Remington sends it to one of there gunsmiths in Michigan, they tighten the barrel, and relieve the pressure on the synthetic stock he says, but all I seen was a little whittling where it wouldn't shorten the stock, so it was applying the same amount of pressure as it was before. I get it back with a couple of targets enclosed with about 3 inch groups. They say they mounted a shop scope and sighted it in at 100 yards. He said it's not very good, but it is within Remington's specs. I ask what those specs are, but he doesn't know, but he knows that it is within specs. He says the barrel wasn't loose but he could turn it, so he snugged it up a little more. So I take it out, and the same thing, it's all over the place, so I decide to call the shop in Michigan to talk to the guy who worked on mine, and tell him my story. He says that I should call up Remington and complain. So I call up Remington, and they are sending me another call tag, to ship it directly to the factory this time they say, so the factory can look it over.

    But I can take either one of the scopes I was using and put it on that 243 and get awesome groups. But both of these 7400's just won't cut it. I ask the guy in Michigan the temperature that he sighted my 7400 in at, and he said he would think about 30 degrees, so I ask, "A 25 degree difference shouldn't make a difference, should it?" He said he didn't think so. I asked him what shell he was using, and he said Core LokT 150 grains, so I go and buy a couple of boxes of those, along with some Federal and some winchester, and it didn't make a difference.

    So anyways, I'm thinking of sending my sons in to the factory as well. A local remington dealer told me that they just might throw in a fix for my son's as well, considering the trouble I've been having, or at least give me a good discount.

    Does ANYBODY have any insight as to what in the world could be going on with these two rifles? I mean, we took my sons out several different times, and it always shot about two inch groups, with the old loose wooden stock set. But buy a new snythetic, and it's all over the place, even after removing all the tension, on the new synthetic, because the back of the forend pushes against the receiver and raises the barrel, it it's to long.

    I ask the guy at remington if these synthetic stocks being to long and tight could of hurt these barrels, and he says no, that you can put those barrels in a vise and reef on them to the point they slightly bend, and they snap back into place, with no harm done. (Needless to say, I wouldn't recommend trying that.) But I am at a complete loss. A local gun dealer told me there was a loose nut behind the stock, referring to me of course. But I've been hunting and sighting in rifles for 25 years, and was an expert rifleman in the Army from 1980-1983, when I wasn't busy filling sandbags on the side.


    Any ideas at all would be greatly appreciated.

    Regardless, I will come back and let you know the outcome of what I find out.
  2. The Rifleman

    The Rifleman Former Guest

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    The accuracy should be to within 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 at 100 yards.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2007
  3. The Rifleman

    The Rifleman Former Guest

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    You made two mistakes.

    First you never sell used gun parts on E Bay to try to re coop what you spent when you replaced a Factory Part with a aftermarket part.

    Even if it says Remington on the box that it came in.

    That does not mean that it is going to be the same from year to year and model to model.

    Next thing wrong to me is going to Wal Mart and buying off their rack.

    I'm not being ignorant here and do not want to upset you, but you get what you pay for and Wal Mart is in the buisness to sell stuff as cheaply as possible.

    So let's say that they wanted to buy guns off Remington.

    Remington tells them that they have a wholesale and retail price that they have and you cannot sell for less than our dealers.

    Wal Mart negotiates until they get the volume of guns that they know that they can sell and they buy them for X amount of dollars.

    Now Remington doesn't like to be lowballed and tells their employee's that anything less than standard grade - rejects and seconds are to be put on this pallet and sent to Wal Mart.

    Since Wal Mart does not have a licensed gunsmith on their premisis; they sell the gun to you and "IF" you have a problem their policy is that "YOU" have to send it back to Remington.

    Remington does not want to fix it with their dime, since they were low balled when they sold it and does as little as possible.

    Their only goal is that it goes bang and the bullet comes out the end of the barrel 100 % of the time.

    I would have suggested to you to take it back to Wal Mart and get all of your money back and I would have send you in the right direction to buy a new one off a dealer that would have taken care of you on the spot.

    The Synthetic Stock is binding someplace along the barrel on the first one you had.

    Since most of them were designed to be a Free Floating, there should not be any problems with the factory stock.

    But a aftermarket stock probably would give you problems unless it it professionally installed.

    It's not a job for your someone not trained to do it right, out in your garage on a Saturday afternoon.

    Second is the choice of scope and ammo.

    If you were too embarrased to publish the manufacturer of your scope - chances are that it isn't a very good one.

    Just because your scope worked well on a .243 does not mean that it will work well on a semi automatic 30/06. Not to mention the fact that you tried to shoot it when it was cold outside and the grease inside the scope might have been frozen and when you turned it 20 clicks it might have only moved 5 or 10 and then when the greese released - it might turn another 10 or 20 more depending on how many times to tried to turn it to get it to shoot on target.

    I have had that problem many times with inferior grade scopes in sub zero temps.

    You should have shipped your gun to them with the scope that you intended to use and requested that they send back a target with their results. / Accuracy report.

    I would recommend that you go to a "gunshop" and buy a scope that costs no less than $200 and have it professionally mounted with a good mount and bore sighted.

    Get three different people to shoot the gun and make sure that the temp is at least 45* outside when you shoot it.

    A cold person doesn't shoot as well as a person that is warm.

    Make sure to take no more than 3 shots at a time at a 100 yard target and ample time between sessions to let the barrel and action cool down.

    At that temp, usually it is about 10 - 15 minutes.

    If you have a good scope mount - like a Weaver Rail type system or a Redfield or a Leupold dove tail type mount - there should be no problems with the scope moving.

    Just that you might want to rough up the inside of the rings with some 1000 grit sand paper on a old broom stick to lap them a little and maybe even put a dab of Loctite - Red - inside the rings before tightening them.

    Make sure to put PINK LOCTITE on the small screws before mounting the rail to the action.

    Do not use the scope to turn the dovetail mount into the front socket with the scope.

    Those are the major faux pas that I see on most guns with issue's.
  4. mikmic2

    mikmic2 New Member

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    I do appreciate your input, but let me humble make some observations, and perhaps you can correct me where I am being unreasonable.

    The scope I use on my rifle is a Redfield Partner made in the 80's or 90's I hear, and it is one of the few scopes that gives me enough adjustment, so that I don't have to wear reading glasses to shoot with. I'm no expert on scopes, but the fact remains, all of my scopes will zero right in on the 243 at the weather conditions I mentioned. So I don't think the scopes grease or whatever is the problem.

    Secondly, walmart normally sells there 7400's for $458.00, about the same price I can buy them at Mills Fleet Farm, so I'm not so sure there is a difference in quality, as looking at the parts from my sons and my walmart, one I cannot tell the difference other then the matte finish. Of course I am no metal expert

    I myself before I bought this redfield, went to a mom and pop shop who sold leupold bushnell, and other related scopes. My request was simple I wanted a 3x9x40 that loooked good to me when I looked through it. Well after looking at new scopes like the Leupold VXl and VXII and a Elite series 4200, and a host of other used scopes, I preferred the used Redfield partner over all of them, because to me, I could see much clearer and everything appeared closer at the same 3x9 setttings, whether it was on 3 or 9. I was able to go outside with all of these scopes and compare them side by side, an advantage you won't find at most places. Anyways, I have a guarantee on the scope, but don't believe the scope is the problem, because I can zero in my 243 with any of my scopes with in about 9 shells. All of the scopes adjustments in this weather were responding just about instantly. I might of had an occasional first shot a tad off, but after that the groups were great.

    It doesn't matter whether or not I bought it from Walmart, or Mill's Fleet Farm, the fact remains Remington made it, and are supposed to stand by their product. It appears they are willing to do so at this point. But they are both free floating at this point, and still wandering all over.

    My son has the Bushnell Trophy. The scope that has been on the 243 since 1963 when my father bought the model 600 is a K-Mart all pro, that has been capable of two inch groups since the day he bought it. And I am sure he only paid about $30.00 for it back then. So I don't have to have a $1000.00 dolllar scope to know if something is wrong with a gun or not. As I said, my sons rifle shot fine until I changed the stock set. And that same bushnell Trophy works great with the 243. I am convinced that there is nothing wrong with all 4 of my scopes.

    I am rather suprised that of all the dealers I spoke with, including remington, nobody has giving me any hint of what might be going on here. Everybody says that no pressure should be exerted on the receiver by the forend, but when I completely relieve the pressure, it doesn't do any good. I suppose I should just use the iron sights and see what happens, and boild it down to movement between the barrel and receiver, if that is the case, but at this point, with the ammo I have purchased, it is cheaper just to send to the Remington factory this time, and see if they can fix it, and hopefully be able to explain how they did it.

    I was just hoping to not have to send it in, and get some advice from people who have went through this before. I have spoke with one guy who had this problem until he free floated his forend, and his problem went away. Mine did not.

    Do you have first hand knowledge that Walmart, get's Remington's "seconds", and "rejects". I've heard stories during my research on this subject of people being very happy with the accuracy of there Walmart 7400, up to 1.5" groups consistently.
  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    micmik2:

    The Walmart story is an old one spread by the unions that have a conspiracy currently working to try an break Walmart. They are unhappy that Walmart employees refuse to unionize. They have put the proposed Walmart in our area on hold by filling frivilous lawsuits on environmental issues by a guy that does not even live in this state! Common sense says that any gun with Remington's name on it, whether it sold at Walmart or the local gun store, Remington will be ultimately responsible for. They got to fix it no mater where it was purchased. Why would they purposefully discredit themselves by letting inferior rifles out of their factory? Stupid story!

    Back to your rifle. There is more to the stock then just the forearm. The rest of the receiver has to seat in the stock and be given full support. I suggest you inspect the receiver to stock relation ship very closely. The key to good group size is that everything has to be the same with every shot. If the stock/receiver relationship changes shot to shot that could make the bullet move around on the target. I have a Remington 7600 pump with a wood stock and it shoots reasonable groups for a 35 Whelan as did your son's 7400 with the original stock. These are very similar gun designs even though the have different operational actions. It is a good proven design. The common denominator here is the plastic stock as you have suggested. There is nothing wrong with plastic stock but any stock, no matter the matterial it is made of, must be bedded properly for good accuracy. Look for an area unsupported under the stock screws that hold the stock and receiver together. Verify there is a good place on the stock for the recoil lug to seat against and that it touches that pad fully. I think you get the idea. Oh, Redfield scopes are good scopes. I used one for years and the Leopolds and Burris offer nothing more than the Refield, in my experience. The Bushnell Trophy is now my scope of choice as I have found it to be the most scope for the least money and have several of them on my various rifles, side by side with Leopolds and Burris and Weaver and others.

    LDBennett
  6. The Rifleman

    The Rifleman Former Guest

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    I don't want to get anybody mad here. That is why I edited my post 20 times last night trying to get it right - as to not offend anyone.

    The person who test fired your gun at the factory is a family friend and has gone hunting with my family members some years ago will tell you for a fact what I am about to tell you.

    First off let me introduce myself. My name is Jerry and I was a associate of Wal Mart Inc some 14 years ago when they built a distribution center in a community not far from my home. I was the 3rd person hired in the whole place.

    I got several family members a job there and none of them works there today.

    As for Unionism, I am all for it. But when Wal Mart built their new center here, the first thing that they told us was that if we tried to bring in a union, into the center, that they would close it down tomorrow.

    I'm talking about 26.4 acres under one roof.

    Not some little dinky super center.

    Ok, now back to Wal Mart. I know the company policies and I know all about how it is ran.

    I was one of the first people fired and walked out the door.

    I threw ( which is a term that a order picker uses to describe labeling a item to be sent to a store on the conveyor) 120 color tv sets on the conveyor belt as christmas trees.

    In that particular case, the distribution center has 3 days to find them color tv's or else the store gets to keep them at the price of the christmas trees and shows a profit.

    The company's main objective is to save you money.
    The way to save you money is to get your family members to work for them for slave wages and then get you to shop in their stores and buy junk. Mostly stuff made in korea and china that is not even safe and their workers work for as little as a dollar a day and are damn glad to get it.

    You cannot compete against a company that is paying their workers a dollar a day in the United States.

    Especially not with a company that has a union.

    In return, 25 % of all stuff sold in a Wal Mart store is not genuine.
    By that I mean little things like Fram Oil filters - that were cut apart and all that was inside was a chineese newspaper rolled up and wrapped in a piece of tin.
    Or Nintendo games that do not have a chip that was made by the manufacturer that made the game or video tapes that were not made by the manufacturer's name on the box.

    Americans do not care where it comes from or if it is safe.
    All they do care about is that it is cheap.
    Thats why my parents got up on black Friday last year to buy a 19 inch color tv for $99! Because it was cheap.

    They didn't care where it came from or if it lasted a week.

    I will also get in trouble when I say that a 30 year old scope - and I don't care if it is a Leupold or what ever brand you choose, is not as good as a new $200 scope that is made today.

    The optics are better and the coatings are better and the construction is better and the quality is now better.

    I will not buy a scope from a Wal Mart, nor will I buy any scope from any gunshop where they will not let me take it outside.

    The gunshops that I deal with knows me.
    They know me by name and we talk, sometimes for hours.
    I buy lot's of stuff and they don't bull$hit me one bit.
    They know what I have to spend and what I expect out of anything that I buy and not to pass junk on to me.

    Wal Mart has some dude that couldn't make it in the real world and so he got a job standing behind the counter selling junk.
    He doesn't want to be there and he doesn't care if you got screwed.
    He isn't a professional gunsmith or a hunter that has years of experience. All he is, is a paid clerk that sells you cheap stuff - cheap.

    Go out and look at a good scope.
    Leupold or Swarovski or a Burris or a Schmidt and Bender.
    Then you will see the difference between price and quality.

    I'm not talking about something in a seed and feed. Because again they know their customers and what they want and how much they are willing to spend. Those people also only carry a small line of cheap scopes - to please the general public. They cannot afford to keep a good scope on stock for months at a time when they can sell 10 Tasco / Bushnells and still make a sale and twice as much profit per a month.

    I cannot shoot my fathers guns because he has them sighted in for his eyes and he cannot shoot my guns because they are sighted in for my eyes.

    I cannot tell my father to go out and buy a new gun or a new scope because in his mind he thinks that he already has the best scope and nothing else is going to compare to them.

    No matter how good it is and how junky his might be.

    Everybody cants their guns differently and so it shouldnt make any difference what scope is on your sons gun as long as he is the one that is shooting it and sighting it in.

    A semi automatic gun does not chamber a round quite the same way that a bolt action rifle does and so some of the inheriant qualities of a bolt action rifles accuarcy is lost in a semi auto rifle.

    It could be that the way that the bolt face incercepts the lugs machined into the barrel is not the best and that there is some camming going on in the chamber that is allowing it to chamber off center or not allowing it a full lockup when it chambers a round.

    Or it could be that the button rifling in the bore is not very good and that it needs to be polished. which by hand at a custom gunshop such as Remington would he a very costly expense.

    They are not working for $7.50 a hour like the clerk in the Wal Mart store ..

    You could easily spend $1000 on each of these rifles to get them to shoot 1 MOA sending them back to Remington to have them fixxed.

    So your other option there is to buy a kit that firelaps a barrel using abrasives bonded to bullets that will polish the bore of the barrel and take out small imperfections.

    Nostalgia Enterprizes Company
    536 C Stone Road
    Benecia, Ca 94510
    1 800 451 3550

    They sell such a kit and it is big enoug to do two guns.

    But then again, a real gunsmith would also slug your barrel with lead and use a rod to check the tolerences of the barrel and look for tight spots in the barrel while he was firelapping the barrel.

    Not something that you could do in your home shop with no formal training.

    Your best bet is to sell them outright and keep your eyes open on the used gun racks for what ever gun you would like to own.

    Preowned guns are not a bad investment because most times either the person died and their children did not hunt or else they were too old to continue hunting and sold their collection or else they were hurting for money and just got rid of it.

    I'm sure that you could find something better for less money than what you now have.

    And a Remington 760 Gamemaster Pump will shoot every bit as fast as your 7400 and will shoot twice as accurately as your 7400 and will not give you one lick of trouble. I have had lot's of them.... I own lot's of them.

    At our hunting camp there was 14 Gamemasters on the gun rack and two bolt action rifles. And we all got deer.
  7. The Rifleman

    The Rifleman Former Guest

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  8. The Rifleman

    The Rifleman Former Guest

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  9. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Rifleman but it all sounds like union propaganda to me. There is no one in Californina working for Walmart that earns slave wages. They have had votes here and the employees do not want to be part of the union. Period. It all has been heavily publicized here and if there were any coercion by Walmart on these employees it would have come out and it didn't. They decided so the union is mad and has taken on Walmart. This has happen across the entire nation. One such case just happen about a month ago with a new Walmart that the union was going to close down with a lawsuit that claimed that Walmart officials unfairly influenced the decision by the city council to build a Walmart Super Center. Literally hundreds of new Walmart employees would potentially be out of a job.

    The laws of optics were defined centuries ago. A 20 year old scope was designed to the same laws of optics that todays scopes. Older scopes like Redfields use the same sealed techniques and if laid side by side with modern scopes would be hard to tell apart from a design point. Lately in order to generate sales Leoplod and Burris (both excellent scope manufacturers) have taken to adding gimicks to increase sales. Gimicks that serve little purpose (locking scope adjustments for example..scopes have not skipped over adjustment clicks in 40 years). And for $200 you won't get much of a USA made scope. A Leopold or Burris is likely to get you for a lot more. Yes indeed the Bushnell or other less expensive scope is made in China, Korea, or some where else in the Orient, but get used to it. EVERYTHING is made outside the USA, whether the unions like it or not. It's called a world economy and it is here to stay. Not everybody can afford $300 USA and European made scopes. And frankly I have them all and there is little difference in them. My Burris broke just like the less expensive scopes and the image quality is on a par if you get the "Better" line of the Bushnell family, for instance.

    And exactly how far would phoney Fram filters get? That's union anti-Walmart propaganda again.

    The 7400 and 7600 Remington pump and automatic use the same bolt. The head is seperate and revolves into the fixed locking lug receptacles that are part of barrel extension. The gun doesn't know whether you are racking it or the recoil spring is racking it. The cartridge seats the same. These guns are very much like a bolt gun except the feeding is automatic or by human force of a racking action. They have the potential of shooting good groups. If the shots are moving all over the place then SOMETHING is wrong. If the only change from acceptable accuracy to unacceptable accuracy is the change from a wood stock to a plastice one, it is the stock! Not the scope!

    Rifleman, you told a nice story but no one here is buying it. It is ripe with anti-Walmartism perhaps because of your personal bad employment experience 14 years ago or the fact that you are probably a union member bound and determind to "get" Walmart. I do not think such bias needs to be expressed here and suggest the administrtors look at this post and decide.

    LDBennett
  10. Wraath

    Wraath New Member

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    That was a nice salvo!
  11. The Rifleman

    The Rifleman Former Guest

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    Well Mr. Bennet, I can tell you that I am not for the unions.

    My father was the president of a local Union - the United Steelworkers of America about 20 some years ago.

    When the company that he worked for - Airco Speer - Carbon Graphite went out of buisness, he lost his job.

    He tried for almost a year to buy the company using Employee Stock Ownership Program. But the Jewish people of the town bought the company and already had federal funding before they ever even owned the company.

    My father knew Loyd McBride and the union never lifted a finger to help him because at that time the big steel mills was going out of buisness and all they cared about was big buisness - not 70 employees in some back water small town.

    As for Wal Mart paying so good. When a new company comes into a new territory. They look for the most impoverished place to build their distribution centers. The reason being that they can get the labor force for half the money that it would cost them to work in the citys and areas of prosperity.

    I was making $8.50 a hour. Everyone was making $8.50 a hour that was not office personel. I knew of people that worked for Du Pont for 20 years and had familys to feed and quit their good job to work for Wal Mart and within 9 months went back to their old jobs - lost all of their seniority. Benifits, and almost lost their homes and cars because of Wal Mart policies.

    What Wal Mart would do is schedule you for 4 days of work. We did not work Sundays because they said that Sam Walton was a religious man.

    The only thing Sam Walton worshiped was the almighty dollar.

    You would show up at 5 AM and do your calistetics and sing their songs and go to work. For the next 4 hours they would yell on the pa system that you were not going fast enough and after 6 hours they were looking for people to take a voluntary L.O.W. ( Lack of work )

    So the people that took the low - the brown nosers - they kept.
    The people that stayed and tried to get their 10 hours -- they got rid of.

    People depended on 40 hours a week of work to pay their bills and they couldn't get it. My average pay was 36 hours a week.

    A even better story;

    The last place I worked at - a machine shop in Export PA was a union shop.

    They paid $10.84 a hour to start and there was people that was there a couple of years and was still making entry level pay. They never got a raise the whole time that they had been there.

    Everytime I went to service my lathe I caught he11 from the union stewart - which was also the day time supervisor.
    It seems that the person that was the maintence person had cancer and died. There was another person that had been there for 3 years and he wanted the maintence position - but did not know how to fix anything.

    I did some of their maintence because the real maintence man was gone for over a year and nothing was fixxed in that amount of time.

    OSHA would shut this place down and it never would re open - it is that bad.

    The union set the prevailing wage and the union steward signed the contract.

    The union steward got a raise and the other people in the shop got $.20 a hour every year - for a cost of living increase.

    Now you tell me how $.20 covers the cost of living.

    From all of my research - the cost of living averages about 15% a year.

    We had a customer come in the shop one day and I asked him do you know the difference between the condition of the stuff we was fixing - between the time it came to us and the time we sent it back to them.

    He said no;

    I told him. the only difference is that when it leaves it is shiny.

    The run out on the headstock on my lathe was so bad that you couldn't measure something more than 3 inches from the chuck and not get a different measurement. Most of the parts was 16 feet long. .050 run out was not uncommon in 16 feet.

    The supervisor had a relative that he got a job for and most of the time either the kid was at his lathe and they were talking all day or else he was at that kids lathe and they were talking all day long. They should have both gotten half pay because neither of them gave the company 8 hours of work.

    If the supervisor didn't show up. the owner gave the relative the supervisor for the day job because the kid didn't own his own tools and he didnt know his butt from a hole in the ground..
    He had been there for a year and one half . That kid also got a $1.50 a hour raise in the year and one half that he had been there..

    I told the owner that all he attracted was leaches and dead beats.

    There isn't many people in the USA that actually wants to work, but they all want paid top dollar.

    If everyone went to college - who would pick up my garbage?

    That is the answer to this mans origional question in a nut shell.

    There are people in all walks of life that does not want to work any harder than they have to to earn the money that they are paid.

    I know all about how the workings are inside the Remington 760 / 7600 / Model 6 / 740 / 7400 because I have had all of them apart many times.
    Probably more times than you ever will in your life.

    They suffer from out of tolerence od, id and contricity in the chamber.

    Some of the 760's / 7600's blow open in the pump models when you shoot them.

    The Browning Automatic Rifle - BAR hunting rifle was no better.

    If you could get a 300 Win mag to sight in to within 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards - you were doing good.

    The people that I knew that owned them and hunted with them fouled the barrel before hunting season and never cleaned them until it was over.

    They loaded the gun before the season and shot a round or two and left the gun loaded the rest of the time because the POA ( point of aim ) would change for the first round if you chambered it in the gun by hand as opposed to shooting it and having the gun chamber the round for you.

    That information came from a very good source, not just my opinion.

    The man asked why is there no accountability at Remington and feels that it is their fault and that they should fix it.

    When in fact it all goes back to our school system and the question - why can't Johnny read? Because the kid is lazy and the school system is lazy and all people want to do is have a good time and not work.

    The average price for a new Remington 7600 with a wood stock is about $535.00

    So if you bought a gun that only costs $435, what did you get?

    That is the reason why all my new guns say's Browning on them!
  12. mikmic2

    mikmic2 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    4
    Boy did this thread take a turn. LOL.

    Anyways, Around here like you said you can buy the wood stock 7400 for about $540.00 and the synthetic from anywhere between $479.00 at Scheels, to $499.99 at Gander Mountain. Walmart and Mills Fleet Farm sell the synthetic 7400's for about $458.00. Walmart was blowing them out at the $369.99.

    I bought my sons with the wood stock used. I bought the the new one for myself from Walmart at $369.99. I looked at all the other 7400's at the other stores, and they didn't look any different to me. Why would Remington want to sell a large chain like Walmart, junk rifles? I could very easily bring it back to Walmart and tell them it's a lemon, but I could very well go out and buy one for $499.99 and have the same problem. So for the $130.00 I think I'll just send it to Remington, as they pay for it both ways. Another brand new one I seen on a shelf, at another store, for $499.99 wouldn't shut all the way by just letting it go 1/4 speed, you would have to slam it.

    At any rate, I have found out that the problem isn't the stock being to long, but where the stock screws to the lug, isn't the right angle, and it puts pressure on the barrell. So I whittled a little bit until the forend is truly floating on both of them. But seeings how mine wasn't shooting right before, with the forend bolt loose, I wouldn't think it will change things, but I'm going to give it one more shot before I send it back to Remington, because I think I have figured out these synthetic stocks. I have been whittling on the wrong end. It wouldn't be the first time I was at the wrong end of things. LOL. There could be another possibility I am overlooking as well, but I think I will try the iron sights as well, and see what happens. I will also check the barrel tightness.

    My son's shot good until the barrel change, so if anything, I'm hoping his goes back to the same groups he had before. Anyways, it gives me and my son a reason to head to the range. The weather has broke, and were almost hitting 30 degrees here in Wisconsin. Its a HEAT WAVE. lol

    I've had other people tell me that Walmart sells a cheaper line of things then other stores, like there Fishing reel the Abu Garcia 6500 C3 that I bought for like $65.00 in 1986. Anyways it looks like the same reel they sell today, except it had the wooden grips instead of the nicer plastic or rubber grips they have now. I did notice that even the modern Walmart brand had a plastic spool tensioning knob, but everybody else wanted more money. But now Walmart actually wants $10.00 more dollars for that reel then the other big boys around town, so I'm not sure what happened.

    Anyways others claim that not only does it have the plastic spool tensioning knob, instead of the steel, but it also has cheaper gears in it. Why would Abu Garcia make a cheaper reel for Walmart, and call it the same thing? What benefit would Abu Garcia get out of selling a cheaper model on one of there better selling reels? So people can complain about the piece of junk 6500c3. I don't think so, because they are one nice reel, no matter where you buy them. I've used that reel every year for Catfishing, sturgeon fishing, and occasionaly musky fishing, or throwing big baits for big Largemouth, and it hasn't missed a beat. I must confess, I've only oiled it a couple of times since I bought it, so they sure can't be inferior gears or bearings. My son wore out 7 Zebco 404's in one bass fishing season, until the next year I taught him how to use a baitcaster, with 6 bearings that we bought in a $50.00 close-out special from scheels, complete with the lifetime warranty. These come from Japan, and we've got well over 225 days of bass fishing on those reels in the last 3 years, and they work the same as the day we bought them. Zebco's sure aren't made for casting all the time, let alone reeling in big old Crankbaits. Those sleeve's can't handle the stress like the bearing type reels can.

    Combined with my son we've got 5 6500 C3 reels, and I love them, I bought some used, I bought one at Gander, and I think my son bought a combo at Gander as well. I've seen others who have paid the full price, from a name brand sporting goods outfit, and there's have been in the shop a couple of times, and they don't use it as much as I do.

    I prefer to believe that Walmart get's a break through volume buying on there name brand stuff.

    Anyways thanks for the replies, and I will keep you updated.
  13. mikmic2

    mikmic2 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    4
    Rifleman said,"The man asked why is there no accountability at Remington and feels that it is their fault and that they should fix it."

    I don't ever remember saying there was no accountability at Remington. And if the gun comes with a two year warranty, why not use it?
  14. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,305
    Location:
    Hesperia, CA
    Rifleman:

    Where you live they may well build Walmarts in the slums but not in California. The proposed one here is next to one of the most elite area of the combined three cities that make up the Victor Valley in the High Desert outside Los Angeles. While Walmart may have paid low wages 14 years ago that is not the case today and we happen to live in today, not yesterday. If its benefits you need and 40 hours per week and Walmart can't provide it then go somewhere else to work. You have choices in America!

    I feel for your current work situation but if it were me I'd be long gone. Making crap stuff is not what I would be interested in doing. Why are you?

    I know the Remington 7400 as I too have had it totally apart to do a trigger job on it. I know the Browning BAR as I have one of those as well. The Remington has performed flawlessly. Admittedly I only shoot it off the bench at paper but that's what I do with all my guns. The BAR had a factory manufacuting problem when I got it new. It would occasionally fail to fire and take great force to open. I took it to their repair station and they pronounced it "good to go" and had done nothing. I investigated the problem and found that the factory had missed a reaming operation in the chamber and there was no smooth transition from the chamber to the rifling, just a step. The bullets were jamming into that step not completely seating into the chamber, holding the bolt slightly open. That was enough so that the internal safety, that holds off the firing pin if the bolt is not completely closed, would let the hammer fall but the firing pin could not reach the primer. I took it back to the repair station and the guy there threw up his hands and said it must go back to the factory which it did and got fixed. Factory chamber reaming is divided into two reamers: everything but the throat and the throat which my gun missed. You see even Browning screws up and my gun was a European made Browning!

    Unions are based on socialism....we all work and divide up the pay. But whether you work hard or not at all, you get the same pay. If you don't mind that then unions are the way to go as they give you a united mouth. But unions have had a history of corrupt leadership or in some, at least a two tiered system..the workers and union bosses.... and guess who gets all the money. I'll take a system that reward me for MY efforts or lack there of. I have a mouth and feet and if I don't like the boss or the work environment or the pay I'll move on. I don't need some over paid slick union boss talking for me and taking my paycheck in the form of dues.

    15% cost of living? I think not! The rate in the last ten years has been no higher that 7%, if that high, and for most of the time it has been closer to 3%. If a person is having trouble making it on their current wages then they need to either change jobs or go to school for a job that pays more. If a person chooses to skip education when they are young then they will suffer their entire life unless they do something about it, like choosing a field where education is not as important, like sales.

    The post here was about a Remington 7400 that failed to be accurate enough after a stock change. I would think that the problem would not be with the quality of Remington rifles or the fact that the gun was purchased at Walmart or that the scope was not purchased in the last two years but what was changed: the stock! Let's leave it at that.

    LDBennett
  15. The Rifleman

    The Rifleman Former Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    135
    The reason that Wal Mart raises their prices after a while is that once they run all of the competition out of buisness - they no longer have to cut their own throats to stay in buisness.

    I didn't say STORES. I said Distribution Centers..

    A distribution center is not a warehouse.

    It is a distribution center. From the time that something enters the DC it is no more than 3 days until it is all gone.

    That includes staple stocks.

    I ran the jump line, which is a line that is ran right out of the back of a trailer and fed right into a line that is loading into all of the trucks to be shipped that day.

    That would include Shoe Trailers, Just in Time freight and small things like tooth brushes and Ammo.....

    There is a BIG difference between a STORE and a DISTRIBUTION CENTER.

    You do not build a DISTRIBUTION CENTER IN A EXPENSIVE AREA BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY MORE TAXES AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY YOUR WORKERS MORE.

    That would raise your prices and not make them fall....

    WAL MART WILL SELL ANYTHING AT A LOSS FOR A WHILE TO DRIVE OUT THE COMPETITION. SOONER OR LATER THEY WILL REACH THEIR GOAL AND WILL NO LONGER HAVE TO UNDER SELL TO STAY IN A AREA.
  16. Wraath

    Wraath New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    MA. (don't rub it in)
    Anyone care to borrow my old boxing gloves?

    That was one of the best exchanges I've seen in a while and I found it very informative thanks.:D

    W.
  17. berto64

    berto64 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2001
    Messages:
    7,491
    Location:
    Owyhee County, Idaho
    Hey folks,

    This started out about a couple of rifles and difficulty in sighting them in and now nhas turned into a WalMart Bashing thread.

    Let's leave WalMart & Remington alone and get back to the original topic or I will be forced to lock this thread.

    This board is not a soapbox for bashing those you don't like or have a beef with.
  18. Wraath

    Wraath New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    MA. (don't rub it in)
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