U.S. Army MPs sent to Alabama Town

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by GunHugger, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2007
    SW PA

    CLOSE [X] Today on Glenn Beck, Peter Johnson, Jr., was on to discuss the complete Constitutional violation of U.S. Army MPs being sent to Alabama recently. Beck's show contacted everybody to find out who sent them, but nobody seemed to know. It's also a clear violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, but who knows who called it?

    Video of interview on Glenn Beck

    AP Story
  2. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2007
    SW PA

  3. neptoon

    neptoon New Member

    Feb 9, 2009
    Warren mi
    :eek:I guess most folks don`t even know what this act is all about.Probably will find out when it`s too late.
  4. topper

    topper New Member

    Aug 2, 2006
    deep in the woods
    posse comatatus act is some real scary stuff. apparently the people no longer have any safeguards in government. ain't that what the prez wants anyway? america, as we once knew it, is no longer. when freedom is sacrificed for security, then we have neither. if we don't all hang in this together, then we shall all hang seperatly. prepare y'self for the coming 'change'.
  5. 45nut

    45nut Well-Known Member

    Jul 19, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    It seems innocuous doesn't it? This is just more sheep training. :mad: :mad: Look at the responses from the locals. Precedent means something here, too bad the dumba$$ sheep can't see the trees for the forest.

    We are indeed on a slippery slope and I don't trust any of the monkeys in DC to protect us. :mad: :mad: :mad:
  6. islenos

    islenos New Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    West Texas
    Seems like a test case for more that is to come.
  7. I agree 100% with both of you. There's a reason why the Founding Fathers did not want standing armies used for law enforcement.
  8. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2007
    SW PA
    More info:

    Army Investigating How and Why Troops Were Sent Into Alabama Town After Murder Spree
    Wednesday, March 18, 2009
    By Pete Winn, Senior Writer/Editor

    U.S. Army soldiers from Ft. Rucker patrol the downtown area of Samson, Alabama after a shooting spree March 10, 2009. (Photo: Reuters/Mark Wallheiser. Used by permission. )
    (CNSNews.com) - The U.S. Army has launched an inquiry into how and why active duty troops from Fort Rucker, Ala., came to be placed on the streets of Samson, Ala., during last week's murder spree in that tiny South Alabama community. The use of the troops was a possible violation of federal law.

    “On March 10, after a report of an apparent mass murder in Samson, Ala., 22 military police soldiers from Fort Rucker, Ala., along with the provost marshal, were sent to the city of Samson,” Harvey Perritt, spokesman for the U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) at Fort Monroe, Va., told CNSNews.com on Monday.

    “The purpose for sending the military police, the authority for doing so, and what duties they performed is the subject of an ongoing commander’s inquiry--directed by the commanding general of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command, Gen. Martin Dempsey.”

    TRADOC is the headquarters command for Ft. Rucker.

    “In addition to determining the facts, this inquiry will also determine whether law, regulation and policy were followed,” Perritt added. “Until those facts are determined, it would be inappropriate to speculate or comment further.”

    Jim Stromenger, a dispatcher at the Samson Police Department, confirmed the MP’s presence in the town, telling CNSNews.com that the troops “came in to help with traffic control and to secure the crime scene”--and the department was glad for the help.

    “We’ve been getting a lot of calls,” Stromenger said. “They weren’t here to police, let me make that clear. They were here to help with traffic and to control the crime scene--so people wouldn’t trample all over (it).”

    Stromenger said the town needed help--calls had gone out to all police departments in the area.

    “We only have a five-man police department,” he told CNSNews.com. “We had officers from all surrounding areas helping out. There were a lot of streets to be blocked off and there had to be someone physically there to block them off. That’s what these MPs were doing. I don’t think they were even armed. The troops helped keep nosy people away.”

    But Stromenger said it wasn’t the Samson Police Department that called for the troops.

    “I don’t know who called Fort Rucker. But someone did. They wouldn’t have been able to come if someone hadn’t,” he added.

    Under Whose Authority?

    The troops were apparently not deployed by the request of Alabama Gov. Bob Riley -- or by the request of President Obama, as required by law.

    When contacted by CNSNews.com, the governor’s office could not confirm that the governor had requested help from the Army, and Gov. Riley's spokesman, Todd Stacy, expressed surprise when he was told that troops had been sent to the town.

    No request from President Obama, meanwhile, was issued by the White House--or the Defense Department.

    Wrongful use of federal troops inside U.S. borders is a violation of several federal laws, including one known as the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, Title 18, Section 1385 of the U.S. Code.

    “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both,” the law states.

    David Rittgers, legal policy analyst at the Cato Institute, said there are other laws barring use of federal troops outside of federal property, as well.

    “Title 18, Section 375 of the U.S. Code is a direct restriction on military personnel, and it basically precludes any member of the army in participating in a ‘search, seizure, arrest or other similar activity, unless participation is otherwise authorized by law,’ “ Rittgers told CNSNews.com.

    “The security of a crime scene is something I think that would roll up in the category of a ‘search, seizure or other activity,’” Rittgers added.

    In addition, there is the Insurrection Act of 1808, as amended in 2007, (Title 10, Section 331 of the U.S. Code) under which the president can authorize troops “to restore order and enforce the laws of the United States” in an insurrection.

    “Whenever there is an insurrection in any State against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be convened, call into federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to suppress the insurrection,” the law states.

    In 2007, Congress expanded the list to include “natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition” as situations for which the president can authorize troops, provided that “domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the state or possession are incapable of maintaining public order.”

    Congress has been clear that the use of U.S. troops for civilian police purposes is forbidden.

    “One of the statutes explicitly says that military brigs can’t even be used to detain domestic criminals,” Rittgers said. “It really is supposed to be a black and white line.”

    The U.S. Department of Justice, meanwhile, would have prosecuting authority, if any violation is deemed to have occurred. The Justice Department did not comment for this story.

    Ft. Rucker, located in Southern Alabama, is the home of Army Aviation.
  9. islenos

    islenos New Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    West Texas
    That is something that makes a shiver down your spine.
    But it's been getting grayer and grayer all the time.
  10. 94z07

    94z07 New Member

    Feb 28, 2009
    Army reviewing Ala. use of troops

    The Army is looking into whether rules were broken when soldiers from Fort Rucker were sent to Samson, Ala., after 11 people died in a shooting spree March 10.
    Samson Mayor Clay King wonders what the fuss is about neighbors helping neighbors.

    Geneva County Sheriff Greg Ward said that after the shootings — as officers protected and processed crime scenes "scattered over 20 miles" — he asked for assistance from Fort Rucker.

    Former Samson resident Michael McLendon fatally shot nine victims in the town and killed a 10th in a neighboring county before killing himself.

    "We do have a mutual aid agreement with Fort Rucker," Ward said, adding that the command center told him "they were there if we needed anything — equipment, generators, lights."

    Ward said after meeting with the state agencies, police departments and city officials involved, he realized "we did not know how long this was going to be prolonged. We had officers down here who had already been on duty 12 hours or more."

    Ward said he had his dispatcher call Fort Rucker again and request about 25 officers "to come to Geneva County. … They were here at our request, giving our officers a chance to get something to eat, to take a break before going back on duty. They had no investigative duties, no police powers. All they did was direct traffic."

    Authorization from the governor or president is typically required for the deployment of federal troops on U.S. soil. The Army confirmed Wednesday that 22 military police and an officer from Fort Rucker were sent to nearby Samson after a gunman killed 10 people and himself.

    Col. Michael Negard of the Army Training and Doctrine Command at Fort Monroe, Va., said officials are trying to determine who ordered the soldiers to Samson, who requested them, why they were sent and what they did there. "This inquiry will also consider whether law, regulation and policy were followed," he said. He declined further comment.

    Ward said the soldiers' presence allowed faster processing of the crime scenes. He said the soldiers arrived about 8:30 p.m. the day of the shootings and left at midnight.

    In nearly 16 years as sheriff, Ward said he doesn't recall requesting assistance from Fort Rucker before, although he has seen soldiers in the county after tornadoes.

    "They did exactly what we asked for and nothing more," Ward said. "For that, I'm grateful."

    Mayor King said he was "very glad" to see the soldiers. "The people of Samson want the soldiers and officers of Fort Rucker to know we appreciate them coming," he said.

    Contributing: Associated Press

    As I understand it a Sheriff can deputize anyone he wants to. I don't think he did. A Sheriff can also ask for help from anyone no matter if they wear a uniform or not. Think these military MPs are guilty of the unlawful direction of traffic? I don't.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  11. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

    This seems like a mis-guided sammaritan act by the soldiers stationed at Ft. Rucker. I have a problem with this action in that the soldiers were ordered to the town to assist LEO's being that it is unconstitutional. If they were asked to volunteer their time as private citizens and not wear uniforms it would have been a lot better. They could have directed traffic just as well wearing high visability vests and light sticks.

    I would like to know where the county and state LEO's were and why they did not respond adaquately to assist in this tragidy?
  12. 4EvrLearning

    4EvrLearning New Member

    Feb 27, 2009
    Left Coast
    "...or other condition".... That's a little open-ended, isn't it?

    I think the Alabama situation is pretty benign. I'm more concerned about what's going to happen as more and more Tea Parties and similar free speech events take place. I'm not against them whatsoever...but I'm not the one sitting in the O val Office, ready to wield power.
  13. islenos

    islenos New Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    West Texas
    It sound as if the US Military will step in when the Local LEOs run into a problem with firearm confiscation.
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