Under the topic of 'Tactics'...this question

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by busykngt, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. busykngt

    busykngt Member

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    This may have been discussed to some extent before but I have a question on police investigation procedures if you actually do have to use your firearm in the line of HD/SD.

    If the worse case scenario happens, lets say via a home invasion, are you EVER going to see your gun again?

    I realize every state (and state laws) are different but really, cutting to the chase, how long is it going to take and what kind of hoops are you going to have to jump through before you see your weapon again (...if ever)?

    And BTW, wouldn't that be an argument to use something "cheap" but deadly? Why would you want to be out your best (i.e., most expensive) gun for months on end? And does shooting someone put a stop to you buying any further handguns (until you're "cleared")?

    And yes, I agree with a previous poster [in a different thread] that the FIRST objective is to stop the attack (not necessarily deal a 'death blow'). However, one way of stopping the attack IS to deal a fatal shot. And thereby assuring at least he won't be bring a law suit against you - doesn't guarantee his family won't however!

    I've brought up several points & welcome any and all thoughts on the topic (especially from LEOs or those who have "been there").
  2. GatorDude

    GatorDude New Member

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    If you need to have multiple firearms so that you have one on hand for another gunfight while your carry firearm is seized for a police investigation, you probably need a realtor to get you the heck out of your neighborhood. ;)
  3. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    It's a good thought. I used to know a guy that had an Ingram subgun, that he'd put a stock and a longer barrel on, and spent a lot of time and effort, coming up with the right load. It was his "home protection" gun. I told him he was a fool.

    Shoot a burglar, and the cops take your 3-grand worth of gun, as evidence. Since it's a machine gun, every cop in the department is going to want to play with it. Since it's a tricked-out machine gun, there's gonna be cops from every department in the country wanting to fingerbang it. When he gets it back (because if it's a good shooting you will get your gun back), it will have a nice coat of rust on it, from the 487 different sets of fingerprints on it.

    If I had the choice, knowing that the cops were gonna take it for evidence, I'd much rather shoot the burglar with my 75 dollar H&R Topper single barrel 16 gauge, than with my thousand dollar Python. Python fits at the head of the bed better, though.

    If you don't need a replacement gun, when the cops took your first gun for evidence, then you didn't need the first gun, right? I mean, hell. You need a gun. Obviously you needed one, since you used it. The cops took it, so no other criminals will ever think about doing anything, because your gun is in evidence. The mugger, the rapist, or the rabid dog will all wait until it is returned to you. 'Course they will.
  4. Juker

    Juker New Member

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    Buy two of everything. :D
  5. busykngt

    busykngt Member

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    You guys make good points. Wikipedia has a good summation (state-by-state) of gun laws. And since I live in Texas, we have the so called 'Castle Doctrine' - of fairly recent years - which allows the individual to protect their home and not be put on the "defensive" (in a trial) by having to prove they made an attempt to escape or otherwise flee their home premises before they used deadly force. In other words, they had to pass a law for what should have been the natural, defacto law in the first place!
    And the other thing that's happened in Texas fairly recently (since 2007), is they passed a law that cleared up a real grey/fuzzy area when it comes to transporting/carrying a handgun in your car. And this law was passed to help protect the citizens of Texas primarily from their own police force(s). This isn't a slam on any specific law enforcement agency in Texas but rather, it put some restrictions on the greatly varying interpretations of the previously existing state law which was clear as mud. Under the old law, some places you'd get in trouble for having a loaded & concealed handgun in your car and in other places, it'd be completely ignored.
    I tend to have two HD weapons in the house - each one in the $200 range. Both dependable, good firing weapons and I keep them loaded with ammo that will do the job! I also keep my wife proficient with both. My more expensive firearms are kept locked away. That way, if a weapon is kept as evidence for any length of time, it's not going to be breaking the bank so to speak. At least for me, that's what makes sense. And yes, I would fight to get my gun back IF that's what it took...it would be the principle of the thing for me. Thoughts?
  6. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

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    Talk to your local district attorney and / or sheriff about that.

    Know your state's case law on the subject. Know what the law says.

    Two is one and one is none.

    As far as getting out of your neighborhood, well, the time is coming that it won't matter where you live. We will ALL be faced with violent confrontations, and the cops are NOT going to be there to help you anyway.
  7. Win73

    Win73 New Member

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    If I have to use a gun, the last thing I am going to worry about is getting it back. Even if you don't get it back, losing a gun is a small price to pay for saving yours or a family menber's life.

    My home defense guns are Ruger and Smith & Wesson handguns or possibly my Remington shotgun. All good quality standard firearms, but nothing fancy or outrageously expensive. (Or if civil order breaks down completely, my SKS.)
  8. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    heck a gun is a tool , if it get's broken in the line of work so what ? get another ..

    dont be petty , it did its job and you and yours are still safe and sound . give thanks to its makers and buy another ..
  9. Boris

    Boris Former Guest

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    Your guns(s) will not be taken at all in some states. It all depends on where you live.
  10. permafrost

    permafrost Active Member

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    Interesting post. Makes a good point for getting a Hi-Point pistol in 45 acp.
    Makes me say Hmmm.... and rub my chin thoughtfully.
  11. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I have a difficulty with that statement.

    Someone was shot. The cop on the scene does not decide whether or not it was a good shooting. The gun is evidence. If, the next day, the DA decides it was not a good shooting, and wants to prosecute for murder, it will really suck if the murder weapon, that the cop did not take, is now at the bottom of the East River.
  12. carver

    carver Moderator

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    I got to chime in here. I live in TX, and yes we have the Castle Doctrine. That being said, contact a good attorny, one that's a criminal defense attorney, and ask some questions! Then contact your district attorney, and ask him/her some questions! What you might find, as I have found, is that if you shoot someone in your own home, it's still murder, untill proved other wise! The criminal defense attorney I talked to is now my attorney, and his card is right behind my CCW card in my wallet. The $800 cost of that firearm you are worried about the LEO's taking off you ain't nothing compared to the thousands, and thousands, of dollars you might have to spend to clear yourself from charges brought by an over zealous DA! The cops don't get to make the call, they just collect evidence!
  13. Kevin Rohrer

    Kevin Rohrer Member

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    The rule of thumb is:

    1. The weapon will be taken as evidence and fired once or twice so the bullets can be recovered and compared to those found in the BG, to prove that was the weapon used to kill/injure him.

    2. The weapon will be held long enough for the DA to either say no charges against you, or a Grand Jury "no bills" you (i.e. you did nothing wrong).

    3. After that, you should be able to recover the weapon. It might take a letter from the DA to get it released.
  14. Boris

    Boris Former Guest

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    In my home state of MI a home owner exercised the new castle law shortly after it was passed. He shot a guy in the back 4 times with a shotgun as he tried to leave the house.

    No weapons were taken, no charges were filed. Case was closed on the scene. Most states dont have the money to pay for all that CSI crap people watch on TV. If the shoot is clean and cut legal you will not have any weapons taken from you in some locales.

    When I was in WA it was a toss up. Sometimes the guns were taken if it looked iffy and most the time it was a have a good evening sir/mam and that was that.

    It dont matter to me anyway. They can take it if they want. Since I know the laws and will only use lethal force within them laws, if they take it I can use one of my other guns until I get it back, no biggie at all to me. Last thing I would worry about is pulling the trigger because my gun might be held for a while, yeah, thats the last thing I will be thinking:rolleyes:
  15. jstgsn

    jstgsn Well-Known Member

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    I would like to offer some advice, even though it is a bit off topic. My feelings are that no matter what firearm you have put aside for home defense, make sure you will have time to get to it!. Even if you sleep wearing a shoulder holstered Desert Eagle, or a brace of .45’s on your hip, if you aren’t aware someone is in your bedroom, you’re in deep dark trouble. As a retired police officer I have witnessed what happens when someone can sneak into your home. Not having adequate locks on your doors and windows, motion lights on your property, or alarm systems, can end up allowing someone to be standing over your bed with a baseball bat. If you are still asleep, what you have on your hip doesn’t matter.
    It doesn’t cost much to have motion detectors placed on your outdoor lights. When someone comes down your driveway, or through your yard, your lights should come on. They don’t know if someone turned them on or if it was a motion detector. Let them worry about that.
    Surrounding my home are inexpensive wireless motion detectors (harbor freight $26) that cause an audible alarm to go off in the house. Each alarm sounds different as I have put tape over them. Sure, deer and other animals sometimes set them off but so what? If a vehicle comes down my driveway, the front driveway alarm sounds, and then as they continue down the drive the rear driveway alarm goes off. I can be pretty sure someone just came down my drive. If all the sensors go off, I’m armed and looking out the windows.
    My door locks have 3” screws that anchor into the wall itself. If someone kicks in the door, it’s just not the white pine door frame being broken, but white pine door frame and the “2X4 wall joist”. I’m going to hear that, no matter what room I’m in.
    To open my windows, you can’t just shimmy them, you have to break them out. I’m going to hear you.
    As far as what weapon, there’s a good chance you are going to encounter my youth model .20 gauge shotgun with the plug pulled. Six rounds of “#4 ought” with a modified choke should be rather discouraging coming down our hallway. It’s light weight, it’s easy to swing in a hallway, and it packs a Wallop!.. And as you had to make so much noise coming on our property and into the house, I may even be sipping a cup of coffee waiting for you. Yep, already called 911 too. (Although as a retired police officer I know when seconds count, call 911, they’ll be there in minutes. )
    When we aren’t home, I’ve marked everything of value with my driver’s license number, and whatever I can’t mark goes into a safe. Also the alarm system is put on and monitored from an off-site location. The alarm company also monitors the smoke detector! Well worth it.
    And for less than $300 I can go buy another Mossberg.
    Note: I have flashlights everywhere!
  16. dons2346

    dons2346 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    "Note: I have flashlights everywhere!"

    Same here and I don't mean those freebees from Harbor Freight. You want a good light from Surefire or Malcoff conversions. You want one of at least 200 lumens or more.
  17. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this could be a great thread topic on it's own. I'm a fan of Fenix lights, but there are some others I've had good luck with, too.
  18. north tex

    north tex Member

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    Tx has made it difficult for the assailants family to sue a shooter that is covered under the Castle law

    "SECTION 4. Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, is amended to read as follows:

    Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A [It is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal injury or death that the] defendant who uses force or[, at the time the cause of action arose, was justified in using] deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant’s [against a person who at the time of the] use of force or deadly force, as applicable [was committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant]."

    To my understanding of current interpretation the Castle Law also includes your vehicle. But I'm not a lawyer, so a check with one would be a good idea.

    I don't know if they take the gun into evidence after a Castle Law shooting or not.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2011
  19. 1 Eyed Jack

    1 Eyed Jack New Member

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    Some solid, well thought out advice there, backed by real life experience, thanks for that,
  20. 1 Eyed Jack

    1 Eyed Jack New Member

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    Please...."and that was that", so in WA state the police on the scene are also the DA and/or Judge?

    If a gun was even discharged, and no one was actually shot, if the police were called to the scene, they are still going to take the gun and sort things out,
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