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unknown side-by-side shotgun/musket from the 1800's (Real Twist)

8K views 13 replies 8 participants last post by  howlnmad 
#1 ·
Hey everyone, along with the civil war rifle i also purchased this old side by side from the same family friend. He had no information about this except it came from the same great uncle who had owned the civil war musket. The only markings that I can find on this gun is "Real Twist" on top of the barrels. It has some pretty fancy metal work on the stock with storage spot for spare shooting supplies. I have tried to research and google the gun to find similar ones and I cannot find anything like it. The gunsmith I took it to did not know anything about it other than he mentioned it may have been a peasants weapon for hunting, so if they saw a rabbit or bird, they could use the shotgun, and if they saw a deer or other big game animal they had the musket. Can anyone help me out here and point me in the correct direction as to what this might be?
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#5 ·
Nicer than average percussion double, and might be German as Iron Eagle suggests, but remove the barrels and there should be proofmarks on underside that identify origin country.

Why are you calling it a "shotgun/musket" which are both smoothbores? Are the bores different diameters?
 
#6 ·
Nicer than average percussion double, and might be German as Iron Eagle suggests, but remove the barrels and there should be proofmarks on underside that identify origin country.

Why are you calling it a "shotgun/musket" which are both smoothbores? Are the bores different diameters?
yes, they are both smooth bores with different diameters, supposidly the gunsmith could not remove parts necessary to check proof marks or did not find any.
 
#7 ·
Not uncommon to see this combination--rifle for musket for longer shot, bigger game and shotgun for smaller or close up game. You can remove the barrel by carefully pulling the wedge pin and and removing the ramrod--the barrel should tip right up and out. Be careful not to drop it. At the beginning of the Jeremiah Johnson movie in the scene where he is trying to catch fish in his bare hands, the Indian on a horse carries a rifle/shotgun combination gun--a surprising level of detail that would go unnoticed by 99% of the viewers.
 
#8 ·
great attention to detail there! Do you have any clue of a price? Is this simply a nice fireplace gun or something more special? I may have been wrong about the description because I believe "real twist" is pertaining to the rifled side of the barrel so I am starting to think the shotgun is smooth bored, and the other is a rifled bore. I will look this weekend again.
 
#9 ·
I'm going with German if it is a rifle and it is on the right. The British put the rifle barrel on backwards, on the left. That and the buttplate, butt stockand the little triggers are pretty Germanic appearing. The Germans used them a great deal on the Continent where they were known as "Combination guns" whereas the British seem to have shipped most of theirs to the African sub-continent where they became known as "Cape guns". I have a couple German combination guns but neither are muzzleloaders. It was not a peasants firearm. Peasants were not allowed to have firearms. The storage area you mention is called a "patch box" on this side of the Atlantic...not sure what it's called on the Continent.

Real twist has nothing to do with the rifling. It is the method of making the barrels. I could explain it but it would much more clear for you to look it up using a bing search. You can check "twist barrels" and 'Damascus barrels". You'll probably get a million or more hits.

If both bores are smooth it's worth maybe $600.00 on the high end. If it is indeed a combination gun you can add a little premium to that.

There may be proof marks on the bottom side of the barrel but if there is they will be marks either the maker himself put there or some mark required by the city where it was made. Those will be difficult to research. Germany did not nationalize until 1871, and then under protest, and there was no national proof law until 1891.
 
#11 ·
If there are marks on the bottom of the barrels they will most likely be maker's marks which may or not be proof marks (proof mark, meaning test fired with overload). The best source of gun markings ID is Stockel, published in the 1940s in two volumes or New Stockel from 1970s, an update. If you can post good photos of marks I will try to ID them. Track record is poor in my experience, not finding marks listed, but now & then pay dirt.
 
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