US Arms progression

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by Guest, Mar 4, 2003.

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    Dave3
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    (5/20/02 10:03:54 pm)
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    Hello all and thanks for your imput. I'm trying to put together a small collection of guns that show the progression of the U.S. military small arms. So far I have an 1903a3, M1 Garand ( I just got it they are pretty nice), M14 and a black gun I know I need a carbine and a 45. I guess I need to know what came before the 03 ( I know the Sharps is in there somwhere) and before that. I hope one day to have a very nice history lesson for my unborn son. I know he will never learn about the importance of these great weapons in todays schools. Thanks for your Imput.

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (5/20/02 10:06:35 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: US Arms progression
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    Well, you need a Krag, a Springfield Trapdoor, a Spencer (which I have for sale -ahem-), and various French-pattern muskets... for a start.


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    jimejones
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    Posts: 43
    (5/20/02 10:32:04 pm)
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    There were a succession of revolvers: .36 Navy, .44 Army, Colt SA Army, S&W Schofield, and a few others. The good judgement of the Army in selecting handguns is proven by the continuing popularity of the Colt SA Army and the 45 ACP. We wouldn't have fared so well had we not been a country where there is widespread competence with firearms. If one wants proof, consider the Nambu model 26 revolver and, much worse, Nambu model 94 pistol. No nation of shooters would have sent people into combat with those.

    Dave3
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    (5/20/02 10:47:27 pm)
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    Thanks Jim and Doc, I've seen the trapdoors at the shows but I don't know much about the Krag and the spencer. What is the going rate on these and there place in history. I haven't seen a scofield around either I bet they are expensive though. Thanks again.

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3528
    (5/20/02 11:20:03 pm)
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    Well, a man after my own heart. I want eventually to have "One of each" starting with a Charleville. But since I sold my Garand like a dummy I have to start over...

    Going backwards you can make it back to about 1865 pretty easily, but you will get positively LOST in the Civil War era.

    Before the 03, there was the Krag, then the 1873 Trapdoor Springfield, but from 1861-65 there were SO many "officially adopted" US arms you can only hope to scratch the surface.

    And you aren't yet finished with the Smokeless stuff yet, either...you need at LEAST one 03 and then an 03A3, they ARE that different. (and maybe one with the "Pederson Device" cutout too...)

    And don't forget our main issue rifle of WWI, the P17 Enfield...

    (and maybe a Wartime and a Post-war carbine...)

    (and a 1911 and a 1911A1...)

    (A gas trap Garand? Nah, you just need the "regular..." )

    (But at LEAST a 1896 Krag rifle AND a Carbine...)

    (We won't mention the 6mm Lee Strait-pull...)

    (And if you get ONE Spencer, you really need a regular, AND one with a Stabler cut-off...)(and don't forget the Long rifle version...you can't forget the Lightning Brigade!)

    There were about 20-30 or so different cartridge firing carbines alone adopted by the Union alone during the CW...Burnsides, Josylyns, Smiths, Sharps, Gallaghers, Henry's, etc, etc, etc...

    If you want just one representative CW muzzleloader, then get a .58 Springfield...(or a .577 Enfield...)







    (and oh yeah, I forgot the shotguns... )
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    chad
    Member
    Posts: 8
    (5/20/02 11:21:02 pm)
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    Great idea, best history lesson your kid will get. One of the best ways to bond with your child. I've been collecting old military guns for my son. At least that's what I tell my wife.

    I saw a new model of the scofield recently. It was said to be a exact copy of the original. Seems like a company called EMF made them. Can't remember for sure I'll post the link if I run across it. Good luck.



    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (5/20/02 11:43:58 pm)
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    BTW, there's a really nice guy at the Indy 1500 show that has a pretty decent US collection for sale, that doesn't mind you handling his guns, and likes to talk...I like him ALOT...

    EVERY show I pick up the same Spencer Model 1865 carbine with Stabler cutoff, about 60-70% finish, saddle ring, and is complete....and he's even let me WORK THE ACTION and pull out the magazine tube!.... Talk about a History/Gun Nut wet dream! I just float away with it in my hands, with visions of Brandy Station, and Abe Lincoln shooting one at a pine board with Spencer himself out back of the White House...

    He has if I remember right, $2350 on it...

    SOMEDAY I hope to buy it....(and I DARN sure won't let some Polak with obviously not enough money to buy it PLAY with it every 2 months...LOL)
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2157
    (5/21/02 4:41:14 pm)
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    ....and don't forget the submachine guns...M1923 and M1 Thompsons, the M3 Greasegun, and the Reising (one of Polish's all-time favorites).

    When you get a Garand, might as well pick up a Johnson too...the Marines used those for a while.

    Dave3
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 70
    (5/21/02 9:33:19 pm)
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    You guys are killing me! It may be 20 or 30 years before my project is complete. I had no Idea there were so many. The history channel has led me astray. Thanks for the lesson. Polish I think I know the guy you are talking about I'll have to stop by his table next time. I think there is a 1500 next weekend.

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3535
    (5/21/02 9:48:15 pm)
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    It's the first weekend in June...and I can't go, my son graduates that weekend.

    If it's in the Marsh Pavillion he usually is set up in the second or third row from the North end of the building, in the main hall, about halfway down...there's a surprising number of Spencers at the show usually, at least a half dozen, but most are under glass or have the dreaded "do not touch" (drool?)signs on them...

    A couple of years ago at Friendship, there was a guy on manufacturers row who made the Sharps repros, who had brochures on Spencer repros he was going to bring out, but I haven't seen any yet, that may be the way to go...I would have to shoot any of them I had...I don't like "wallhangars..."

    And I know Old Western Scrounger or somebody is selling components to load or make equivalent loads with modern stuff for the .52 or .56 Spencer rounds, if I remember right you can only fire them single shot with it, but there is a rising interest in shooting Spencers I guess...

    I always had a special place in my heart for them, I can't help but think what would have happened in the old west had Spencer been a better businessman, and/or Oliver Winchester didn't buy him out just to eliminate the competition to his Model 66....

    Read any of the accounts of Wilder's Lightning Brigade in the Civil War, or the book about Eli Lilly's 18th Indiana Battery (he fought with Wilder for about a year, until just after Chickamauga) and you really begin to appreciate the Spencer rifle.
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"
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