Very small caliber black powder? with short barrel and tapper

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by dandidit, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. dandidit

    dandidit New Member

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    I cannot find any markings on this gun. The only marking is the #7 stamped on the bottom of the barrel and the end of the forearm. It seems the cap is placed in a hole on the underside of the barrel about 10" from the end. I'm really not even sure it is black powder, but I think it is. Any ideas on what this gun actually is?

    Here is a link to some photos:
    https://picasaweb.google.com/118330748214959271349/Blackpowder?authkey=Gv1sRgCKXy8739yMyjmgE

    If you need more info or pictures, let me know!

    I do want to point out that you can zoom in on the pictures if you click on the magnifying glass.

    Thanks,
    Dan
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  2. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    first thoughts is of a barvarian parlour rifle for shooting indoors during cold winters , but the peep sight is a lutnz variety or copy and they where high end peep sights so got me lost
  3. hrf

    hrf Active Member

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    Welcome to the forum.

    You have a German or Austrian 'Zimmersch├╝tzen' made for indoor target practice. Yours is apparently a percussion type but they were also made for use with sub-caliber cartridges powered by only a primer.

    A nice example but the front sight is missing and it appears the rear peep sight has been broken.
  4. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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  5. rhmc24

    rhmc24 Member

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    Pictures leave a lot to memory and recall of something similar. It appears to be a parlor gun that depends on the force of the cap to propel a ball of small diameter. Used for indoor amusement target shooting in the mid 1800s, they were usually well made and some highly crafted for use by the affluent. Most I have seen were thought to be German. Some good close up pix of the lock, the nipple area, muzzle and the entire gun might offer more info.
  6. hrf

    hrf Active Member

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    They were also called 'Zimmerstutzen' and although I said German or Austrian, I believe a few were made in USA for customers in cities with large German immigrant populations such as Cincinnati and St. Louis .
  7. dandidit

    dandidit New Member

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    Thank you all for the great information. I will post more detailed pictures when I get home. Also, I will see what kind of a job it is to remove the action and check it out in more detail.

    I'm helping a good friend sell off some guns that her father took as payment for various services and this is one of them. I think they've been in that cabinet for at least 50 years. If anyone is interested in purchasing, please message me.

    Thanks again.
  8. dandidit

    dandidit New Member

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    Ah, I found out that the number 7 stamped on the bottom of the barrel might indicate the size of the bullet... neat stuff!
  9. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    That is indeed a zimmerschutzen rifle as hrf said.
    Most likely it was a cheaper model since it's a no-name maker, but it is fitted with a pretty decent tang sight.

    Indoor target matches with these rifles was a common beerhall event, much like throwing darts or shooting pool is. It dates back into at least the early 1800s in the southern and western German states (the kingdoms and duchys of the Confederation or empire).
    Many places had a rack of rifles for patrons to chose from, but just like pool cues, the more avid shooters had their own personalized ones too.
    This passtime is what brought about all those cheap little Flobert style parlor rifles that showed up in the 19th century.


    Here is a link to a rifle similar to yours. Not mine, just posting it for comparison.
    http://www.gunsinternational.com/Percussion-Zimmerschutzen-Rifle.cfm?gun_id=100226927
    If you google search around, you will find some very ornate ones as well that were undoubtedly personal rifles.


    Oh...and please don't refer to it as a Zimmerstutzen. That would be a wooden ceiling beam. (stutzen = a support or brace). :)
    There are enough gunwriters out there that can't get it right, and it drives (at least this) german speaking person nuts.
    A Zimmerschutzen is an indoor rifle, or literally a room shooter.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
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