WA - opposition to Patriot Act

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by armedandsafe, Aug 17, 2003.

  1. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    For some reason, BlueTic's thread has been moved about and locked. I'm bringing it back to life here, because I think we have something to discuss, here.

  2. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    Now: Marlin, please refresh my memory on what it means when we refer to the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" of a jurisdiction. My understanding is that Feds cannot operate in a jusrisdiction without permission and guidance from that officer. In many cases, perhaps all, that means the County Sheriff.

    How far off am I?

    Pops
  3. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

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    On the surface it appears to be a loaded statement, Pops. It gets a clear but perhaps slightly shaded answer.

    The Fed's can operate in any jurisdiction on any occurence that involves the violation of federal laws, and without the "permission" of anyone. They are, as is all law enforcement, subject to all the same constitutional constraints as any other law enforcement organization.

    That said, however, the same courtesies usually apply between organizations. The general rule is that a courtesy call is made when routine items are handled. This is not true in the case of an under cover operation or ongoing investigation that must remain close until complete, however.

    The constable has jurisdiction within his beat; the city police within the city, including the beat; the county sheriff within the county including the city and beat; the state police, troopers or highway patrol, whichever its called, has jurisdiction within the state, including all subservient areas. These jurisdictions are exclusive only to their area of responsibility.

    Clear as mud???????
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2003
  4. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    So in other words, since the Patriot Act is a Federal law, the Feds can enforce it as they see fit, without even bothering to notify local LEOs.

    I commend these people who are refusing to abide by the Patriot Act. It is grossly unconstitutional, and it's nice to see that we still have some people in this country who realize that and are willing to fight against it.
  5. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

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    I agree, Toby. Being a strict Constitutionalist I have felt this was a very bad judgement call by Justice and the White House. The road to hell is paved with a lot of good intentions without thoroughly thinking through a given problem in the emotions of the moment!

    For the most part the idiots in the Legislatuve branch have no excuse other than plain stupidity < with a few exceptions, but darned few.....>

    My comments were merely laying out the law as I see it, not necessarily an endorsement of it! One must understand that the law is the law and it is up to us to see that it is changed, with the help of reasonably thinking courts.

    Unfortunately those, including Pops, who live in the jurisdiction of the 9th Circuit are in big trouble. Although they may be upset by this act as are many others, crossing all lines of thinking and not limited just to the strict constitutionalist as we.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2003
  6. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    I remember working an operation in southern New Mexico, many years ago. The local Sheriff was notified we would be in the area and the general nexus of the investigation. He was not comfortable with our operation plans, so he assigned a couple of uniformed deputies to "oversee" our operation. Blew us right out of the water, it did. I had to go back in later (I had not been "burned" in the first op,) and conduct a lone eagle. :D

    Pops
  7. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

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    Your operatives should have known better if it was a senitive operation. When I was in similar position as a State Investigator, we almost never notified the locals for fear of that very thing. I don't know and never understood why the Feds did it as frequently as they did since they were not required to do so. All too often our experience was usually tragic or at the least a complete blowing of cover letting the subject or subjects get lost.

    I think it is well known that unless there is a close personal relationship between the Fed leadership and the local leadership it MIGHT be okay, but common sense should have dietated otherwise.

    However, as you know, hindsight is always 20/15!
  8. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Armedandsafe....legally, "The Chief Law Enforcement Officer" in any jusrisdiction is the highest elected official. (The head of the Executive Department in a jurisdiction).

    In a city or town, that's usually the Mayor or the First Selectman. He (or she) may delegate that authority to a Chief of Police, but legally remains The Chief Law Enforcement Officer.

    In the state, the governor is The Chief Law Enforcement Officer, and in the Federal Government, the President.
  9. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

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    I want to petition for the REAL patriots act
    none of these weekend patriots that put 474 flags on their SUV like the more you have is the better american you are. My friend and I switched off doing a comic strip for my college paper every week and one time I made one of a dude with a big soccer tank with about 150 flags on it pull up to a guy in a car with one flag saying "hey man your a crappy american." I thought it was only fitting. Seeing as most of the suv flag patrol quit putting them on their vehicles about 2 months after 9/11 turning pride in your country into a fad. That pissed me off. People putting the flag outside their houses and just let them hang until they are tattered and nasty, no respect for the symbols of the country. That eagle crying thing to me was the lamest of the lame. All the silly bin ladin targets at gun shops, that really helps anti gun people along when you put crap like that up. Its like the luke warm sheep with the icthus on their minivan that cut you off and nearly kill you, but hey Jesus loves you.
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