Walter PPK Value

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by walterg3, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. walterg3

    walterg3 New Member

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    You guys really know your guns. I have had all kinds of number quoted for this piece. I'd really like to hear from someone knowledgeable.
    Thanks!
    Walter

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  2. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    You've got a nice pre 1945 Walther there, but in order to come up with we need a photo of all the markings on the left side in a size that it can be read. this will tell us if it is commercial, military, police, etc.
  3. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Hello Walter,
    Your pistol was manufactured at mid war, 1942 to be exact. From looking at it ,I see no special markings on it , so it is a common PPK. That is not to say it was not used in the war. About 3/4s of the Walther PPK"s & PP" that I have seen were bought by the officers, as the military did not buy them for their soldiers. However Hitler provided them with universal health care called ObamaCare.LOL.
    But really U have a nice collector grade firearm & in my opinion 800 to 1000 is the value set by me. Maybe more to the right collector, as these pistols are drying up in supply. Hope this helps you?
    Kind Regards
    Danny:)
  4. SSMN

    SSMN Member

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    Walter,
    Would the serial number happen to be marked on the magazine baseplate?
  5. John59

    John59 New Member

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    Hi im new to this forum, I have a Walther PPK It says: Waffenfabrik Walther. Zella-Mehlis(Thur) Walthers Patent Cal. 7.65 m/m Mod PPK. Eagle over N, twice. #SN 270731k.

    Behind the trigger it has an emblem that looks like an eagle with two letter underneath it which we cant really make out. It is also by the hammer.
    The holster has an eagle with a swastika WaA100 and Walther PPK inside.
    I would really appreciate if anyone could tell me a little something about it and what the value might be. Thank you

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  6. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Yes, it is a PPK, made in 1940 and that is about all I can tell from those poor quality pictures. Please start over in a new thread and try for better pics.

    Jim
  7. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    It is very important to show us the left side of the pistol with all markings clearly pictured. For sharper closeups, set your camera on "macro."
  8. John59

    John59 New Member

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    Thank you i took some new pics i tried to do it the best i could. Im going to try and make a new thread now
  9. John59

    John59 New Member

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    Here are some more pics, in the third pic it looks like an eagle with 3 numbers on the bottom i can just make out the last 2 numbers which look like 59

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  10. Danny

    Danny Member

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    The letters & numbers, WaA 359 is the army acceptance stamp for Walther. This makes the weapon a higher grade collector & thus, more expensive. Also the stamped holster, puts it into a Nazi grade rig.
    My guess on this rig would be 1800 to 2000 dollars. Maybe more to the right person. Hope this helps you some?
    Kindest Regards
    Danny:)
  11. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Just a FWIW. Those HWaA numbers are not really an "acceptance stamp" for a company. They are the number assigned to the Waffenamt officer who was head of the Army inspection team at that plant. The stamps used were issued to him, and he was personally responsible for their care and use. The identities of the officers were classified and with, I think, one or two exceptions, the actual name of the officer is not known.

    The actual "acceptance stamp"/property mark is the eagle/swastika without a number, usually smaller than the WaA eagle with the number.

    Obviously, one man did not stamp those parts and guns himself; he was head of a group of Army personnel who supervised the contractor; in most cases, the actual marking was put on by contractor employees after the part passed inspection. Sometimes, the WaA numbers can be very useful to collectors. If an inspector was reassigned, he took his stamps with him; his replacement brought his own. So we can sometimes see when inspectors changed as parts approved by "123" were used up and new parts marked "456" begin to appear. We can also determine "parts" guns. If "359" was at Walther, a P.38 made at Mauser would not have a "359" part. Some collectors simply ignore those numbers or assume there was some vast parts pool or massive interchange program. But the numbers can tell a story to collectors.

    Jim
  12. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Wrong answer Jim. Each company used their own number in the acceptance. I really thought you would know better than using this rebuttal. Lets take all the holsters made during the war. Each was made by a different company. This one being Walther or Mauser.
    A proof mark is what you are discussing here, not me.
    Danny
    PS: About everything used during the war had an acceptance stamp.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  13. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I did make one error, in that the eagle/swastika was the proof mark as well as the acceptance stamp. No, each company did not use its own number. The WaA assigned those numbers to its own inspectors, not to companies.

    I am not sure what you mean by "each [holster] was made by a different company". Holsters, as in the US, were contracted for separately from the guns, to companies specializing in leather ware, and were delivered to the field units through different channels.

    Jim
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  14. SSMN

    SSMN Member

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    JimK,
    Danny is sort of right this time. The military acceptance stamp or Waffenamt inspection stamps were placed on pistols or parts to indicate official acceptance for use by the Heer, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine or Waffen SS. This number identified the inspecting office by number and indicated that a pistol had passed required tests and that all of the parts had been inspected.The designs of stamps encountered on Walthers were an eagle over the number 359 or an eagle over the number WaA359. The inspectors were not responsible to the factory to which they were assigned. They learned their trade at a special school located in Spandau (Berlin).

    So you see, the acceptance stamp number and symbol indicated an inspection office, not a company, but also not an individual inspection officer. Obviously each inspection office would have many inspectors all doing their job and then applying the inspection office symbol/number. It is not a great stretch to come to believe that the eagle over WaA359 was assigned to the Walther factory since that is where the inspection office utilizing that symbol/digit was assigned. There are other cases where an inspection office did their job and applied their acceptance stamp at more than one factory such as eagle over WaAd20 (Spanish Astra, French Unique and French Mab).

    You could call this one a draw.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  15. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Member

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    So what year was it manufactured? 1940 per Jim K or 1942 per Danny?
    ANSWER: Neither. It was manufactured in 1943.
  16. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Different guns, Buffalochip. I was referring to #270731 K posted by John 59. Danny was apparently referring to the OP's 398843 K.

    Hi, Danny and SSMN,

    If I am wrong so are others, and so is just about everything I have learned about the Heereswaffenamt. I did not say that everyone on an inspection team at a factory had his own number. The number was assigned to the head of the team, and he was ultimately respsonsible for ensuring that the product met the applicable standards. One source is:

    http://www.lugerforum.com/Waffen-NS.htm

    The heads of inspection teams were given their stamps and assignments by the HWaA and usually held the rank of captain or major in the Army though they were technicians rather than trained soldiers. The rank was mainly so they would have more "pull" and be able to exercise command over the other ranks under them. The actual inspection and stamping was normally done by contractor personnel, but the number (and the corresponding stamps) were definitely assigned to one man, not to a factory, and in many cases the numbers changed as the inspection team head was reassigned. A member of the inspection team almost always was present for proof testing.

    The inspection was more rigorous and there was closer supervision in occupied countries than in Germany or Austria, where factory workers generally were trusted.

    SSMN is correct in one area, though. Some items, like holsters, were contracted for separately to leatherware manufacturers. Those factories, because the product was less critical, often did not have "in house" inspection teams. Their products were taken to a depot, which had its own inspection team. The products were inspected and, if approved, were stamped and counted so payment could be made to the company. Thus the products of several companies could have the same inspection number, unlike weapons where the inspection team was "in house."

    Jim
  17. sgtdavisnl

    sgtdavisnl New Member

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    I am very new to this kind of thing and could use some info on a pistole i received from my Grand-Father.
    I receive a pistol from wwII. it is a ppk i believe and would like to know the value and history as it was my lifelong friend and Grand-Fathers.
    I have two sn#'s one on the pistol near the trigger and one on the slide
    Trigger sn= 388107P with AC directly under it. The pistol grips are wood, not plastic and are wood color. two clips that are marked with W on one side.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  18. SSMN

    SSMN Member

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    JimK,
    Not sure who Marvin is....My source exactly as stated is Major Robert D. Whittington III author of "German Pistols and Holsters 1934/1945 Military-Police-NSDAP" Volume I. Pages #31-37. Whittington clearly states that the number was assigned to the inspecting office. No mention made to the officer heading the office. But perhaps "Marvin" knew more.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  19. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Well, you can sneer at "Marvin" (and me) but Whittington is not quite correct. Obviously, the inspection team at a factory had an "office" (they didn't sit in the middle of the factory floor), so in one sense the number was that of "the office". But everything I have been able to learn about the HWaA, from several sources, German and American, is that the number was that of a real man, not an "office."

    In a general sense, "FJA" on US guns represented "an office", but Frank J. Atwood was a real man, though he never personally stamped any gun or anything else at any factory.

    Here is another site that might be a bit more authoritative than "Marvin".

    http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/piclinks/WAAE.pdf

    Jim
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  20. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Jim ,David & other members.
    I have had this for a long time & think it should settle this subject, once and for all.I think I paid 25 dollars years ago for it. Read & keep it for reference.
    Danny http://claus.espeholt.dk/mediearkiv/waae.pdf
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