Walther Mod 9

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by burtondj, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    I have a Walther Model 9 that has Waffenfabrik Walther Zella Mehlis (Thur) on the right side and a N with a Crown close to the trigger. The grips are wooden with dotted circle on each grip held on with a screw. There is another circle below this circle with the initials of F.P. My father brought it home from the war and said it was a 25 cal. The serial number is on the left side under the safety lever which has a S and a F. the number is 624152. I have search the net and asked all the gun dealers in my town and can't get any info except it is prewar and where it was made. I'm not interested in selling just passing it along to my grandchildren with some information about it. Thanks for any help or advise where I might write to get info. I can furnish pics if needed.

    Thanks
    Burtondj
  2. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I am puzzled by your statement that the serial number is on the left side below the safety and that the grips are wood. The Walther Model 9's I have seen, including my own, have the serial number on the right rear of the frame, just below the slide, so I am wondering if the pistol is a Model 9. Also, AFAIK, except for special grips like pearl or ivory, all Model 9 grips were plastic, not wood.

    Anyway, the Walther Model 9 was a very popular gun, they were made from 1921 to 1945. The caliber is 6.35mm Browning, which is called the .25 ACP in the U.S. They are well made and should be fine to shoot if in good condition.

    I can't give you an exact date of manufacture. Walther's records were all lost in WWII, but some have been pieced together so maybe someone else can help you in that regard. One small help, the crown/N proof mark was replaced by the eagle/N in April 1940, so your pistol was made before that. IIRC, Walther numbered all the small .25 caliber pistols in the same series, so there would not necessarily have been that many Model 9's made.

    I have no idea what FP stands for; could it have been the initials of an owner?

    Jim
  3. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    When I was referring to where the serial number is, I meant where the safety switch is behind the trigger, in between the S and F. I have seen pics of Walther PPs that have the PP inside a circle on a plastic grip. Mine has FP where the PPs were and the grips are wooden. I just was curious why the FP never showed up in anything I could dig up on the internet. I even thought that there is probably some kind of Nazi museum in Germany that might have some pics or something. Thanks for your help. I learned a little more about the mystery gun.
  4. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    Your Model 9 grips seem to be correct. The Model 9 has a plain enameled or blue metal medallions with the small stars arranged around it in a circle. This is the grip retaining plate and the grip screws pass through it. Those Model 9's made after 1939 would have a N prefix in front of the serial number. The Model 9 could be ordered with optional ivory, wood or pearl. The black hard rubber grips are standard. The hard rubber grips would have the Walther Banner molded on. the optional grips of course would not. I also have no ideal what the F P means. Pictures would help a lot. Your Model 9 does not have PP on the grips because it is not a Walther PP:)
  5. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    I took these pics. Hpoe they help , I could try to get closer shots without the flash Walther Model 9 001.jpg

    Walther Model 9 002.jpg

    Walther Model 9 006.jpg

    Walther Model 9 005.jpg
  6. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I'm stumped. The gun is a Model 9, but that is the first one I have seen with the serial number in that position. Nor do I know what to make of the grips, which appear to be custom. but retained differently from the normal grips.

    Jim
  7. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    I was doing more research today and ran accross the German Revolver manufaurer named Chriatian Friedrich Pickert. It turns out that Carl William Freund Walther married Friedrich Pickert's daughter in 1888. Maybe the FP marking on the grip was a special issue to honor his wife's father. His daughter's name was Minna Georgine Pickert. They had 5 sons together. Maybe I'm just grasping for straws since it is so hard to find a definate solution
  8. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    Yes that would really be gasping for straws:D It is nor unusual to find personalized initials on the grips of firearms.
  9. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    I really appreciate all the help and information everyone has given . I will keep digging and maybe something definite will turn up. I thought the serial number would help but evidently those records were either destroyed or lost in the war. My father always said he took it off a German officer. That seems to be history of these type pistols from what I've read. Again thanks to all and if aqnything else turns up , please post and I will do the same
  10. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    One thing comes to mind - the Wehrmacht in WW2 must have been extremely top heavy with officers.
  11. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    Friedrich Picket, Zella St Blasi and Zella-Mehlis in Thuringen, German. Founded in 1869, Pickert rose shortly after 1900 to become Germany's most prolific revolver maker, producing a wide range of comparatively inexpensive designs prior to 1939. Many of these were distinguished by the brandname Arminius, though Pickert also used an encircled 'FP' monogram. The business was owned between 1919 and 1930 by Wihelm Pickert. Advertisements published inIn 1919 the villages Zella St.Blasii and Mehlis fusioned to "Zella-Mehlis". For the arms-collectors the year 1920 is of interest, because that time the alteration of the inscriptions from "Zella St. Blasii" to "Zella-Mehlis" on Walther-products took place.
    In that time the "Modell 8", an outstanding vestpocket-pistol, appeared on the market. Shortly after that Fritz Walther started with the production of his pistol "Modell 9" and the automatic-shotgun.
    When they started serious thoghts about the future of gun-production, they got the formative-job for a flare-pistol, and short time later as first big order from the Federal Defense Department in 1926/ 27 thousands of flare-pistols left the factory. In 1929 Fritz Walther finally put his "PP"and two years later the "PPK" on the market. With these two guns the name of "Walther" and of his home town "Zella-Mehlis" went around the whole world.

    Before the year of 1933 the company Walther hardly urged into the military supplies. However with the advent of the "Drittes Reich" they were busy to catch up there. To the unprecedented success of the police-pistols in 1938 as next step the new service-pistol "P 38" for the army followed. Up to 1933 the high ranks of the Federal-Army were good customers of Fritz Walther. Now the NAZI- party-organizations followed..
    Found this on the internet with various sources
  12. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I don't think the Walther-Pickert connection as an explanation for the custom grips is far fetched at all. It may not be true, but it is reasonable and possible.

    Of interest would be better pictures of what looks like the Imperial Eagle on the left frame behind the safety arc and also some marking on the right side above and behind the trigger.

    Jim

    (Jim Hauff. Other armies have had the same problem. Every (white) southerner I know had an ancestor who was an officer in the Confederate Army. I guess they lost for the same reason the Germans did - all officers and no privates. Jim)
  13. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Jim K.
    I got the same feeling over in the Delta - lot's of brass at the base camps, not many in the field. You could easily determine a man's time in the field by the layers of mud on his jungle boots. LOL.
  14. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    On the right side is a N with a Crown above it. There is one next to the trigger and one on the top above the other one. I couldn't see anything on the left side. It might just be a wear mark. These are the best pics I could get with my camera

    Attached Files:

  15. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    Those pics were too close. I'll try again tomorrow
  16. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    The Crown over an N is the Nitro proof mark prior to 1940/41. It was then changed to an Eagle over an N.
  17. burtondj

    burtondj New Member

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    I found this on another site. This seems to answer my question "Friedrich Picket, Zella St Blasi and Zella-Mehlis in Thuringen, German. Founded in 1869, Pickert rose shortly after 1900 to become Germany's most prolific revolver maker, producing a wide range of comparatively inexpensive designs prior to 1939. Many of these were distinguished by the brandname Arminius, though Pickert also used an encircled 'FP' monogram. The business was owned between 1919 and 1930 by Wihelm Pickert. Advertisements published in the 1920s record the specialities as 'Arminius revolvers and target pistols. Best German Products!' Trading ceased after the second world war." - Walther
  18. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    Hello burtondj, I'm sorry to say, I feel you are really clutching at straws. I know you want to believe the initials are those of someone famous, but the FP could just as well ( and most likely are ) be those of Fritz Ponzie. Sorry about that.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  19. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The initials could also be that of some organization or group ("Freiwilliger Polizeidienst" comes to mind) but again, clutching at those straws.

    Jim
  20. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the Walther was made for sale by Picket.
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