WARNING: The're at it AGAIN. NOT FANTASY any longer!

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by Marlin, May 10, 2003.

  1. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

    Mar 27, 2003
    At SouthernMoss' side forever!
    The following message appeared in my E-Mail last night. It is a stark warning that we MUST NEVER let our guard down. Look at the list, urged on by the definition of ASSAULT weapon now, in their eyes, including ANY gun of ANY description!!!


    As we predicted, the anti-gunners have begun the push to further expand the Clinton gun ban of 1994. Not content with merely re-authorizing the ban, Reps. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) have drafted legislation that bans millions more guns! It's a giant step closer to the goal stated by Clinton ban sponsor Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who said on CBS's 60 Minutes: "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it." Toward that goal, Conyers/McCarthy would:

    • Ban every gun made to lawfully comply with the Clinton ban. The Clinton ban arbitrarily dictated the kinds of grips, stocks and attachments that new guns could have. Manufacturers complied. New guns were made to conform to the Clinton restrictions. Now prohibitionists want to ban the new guns, too.General one day claims is not "sporting," even though self-defense is a fundamental right and the federal constitution, the constitutions of 44 states, and the laws of all 50 states recognize the right to use guns for defense.

    • Ban 68 named guns (Clinton ban named 19 guns); Ban parts used to repair or refurbish guns, including • Ban guns the Clinton legislation expressly exempted from prohibition. This includes Ruger Mini-14s, Ranch Rifles, and .30 Caliber Carbines, and entire classes of guns, including fixed magazine rifles, as well as shotguns that hold under five rounds.

    • Ban guns widely used for target shooting. It bans the three center-fire rifles most commonly used for marksmanship competitions: the Colt AR-15, the Springfield M1A, and the M1 "Garand."

    •Ban all semi-automatic shotguns: Remingtons, Winchesters, Benellis, Berettas, etc., widely used for hunting, trap, skeet, and sporting clays, by banning their receivers (main component).

    • Ban guns for defense. Bans any semi-automatic rifle or shotgun any U.S. Attorney frames or receivers; Ban importation of ammunition magazines exempt under Clinton ban; Ban private sales of millions of guns, their frames and receivers, and their parts; Ban semi-automatic rifles under 30" long (useful for home defense); Ban all semi-automatic rifles that can hold more than 10 rounds.

    • Ban guns rarely used in crime. State and local law enforcement agency reports have always shown that guns on the Clinton and Conyers/McCarthy ban lists have never been used in more than a small percentage of violent crime. The Congressionally-mandated study of the Clinton law concluded that guns it banned "were never used in more than a fraction of all gun murders." But even if they were, are the rights and liberties of law-abiding citizens to be dictated by the acts of criminals?

    • Begin "backdoor" registration. Requires manufacturers of banned guns, frames, receivers, and parts to report the names of their dealers, and requires dealers to report any of those parts they have in stock. The next step is obvious-demanding the names of gun owners who buy those parts.

    Please contact your U.S. Representative at (202) 224-3121 or by using the "Write Your Representatives" feature and urge them to oppose any attempt to keep alive the Clinton gun ban.
    Last edited: May 10, 2003
  2. Evilahole

    Evilahole New Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Looks like the Constitution is made of silly puddy.
    Sorry, but I'll fight before I turn over my weapons.
  3. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    Them lousy...

  4. Shizamus

    Shizamus New Member

    Jun 27, 2001
  5. Zigzag2

    Zigzag2 Guest

    *** added for the G.O.A. link***

    You can visit the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
    http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send a pre-written
    e-mail message to President Bush. To call or snail mail the President regarding the semi-auto ban, you can use the following contact info:

    President George Bush
    1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
    Washington, DC 20500
    Fax: 202-456-2461 or 202-456-1907
    Phone: 202-456-1414
  6. WyomingSwede

    WyomingSwede Guest


    As I said before:

    "WE have the best system known to man in this country. If we dont like the laws...guess what ...we can all get together and change them. I am all FOR keeping an eye on the federales and not losing any of my personal freedoms...however I know how to protect those rights too...at the voting booth.

    Do you know who your elected representatives are??? Better yet do they know you??? Most of them tend to vote the will of their district...or so they say. Guess what...with no feedback from you, they will vote their conscience...or lack of same. My representatives know my name...do yours???

    Nothing wrong with keeping yourself and other folks informed. But remember groups just like the people that post in this forum have considerable clout when they choose to exercise it.

    Looks like we all need to do some exercising...

  7. Evilahole

    Evilahole New Member

    Mar 30, 2003
    Only problem is, you "vote" one scumbag out of office only to be replaced by another scumbag. They're all "professional" politicians. Poltitcal service was never meant to be a profession.
    Government as it stands now will never give up it's power over us. Only when we show the "tried and true" two party system that we're sick of thier garbage will things change.
    Democrats and Republicans have run this country for over 200 years and look where we are.
    I never have voted for either party...never will. Both vote only to keep themselves in power, nothing for the true benifit of the American people.
    Keep voting for the same 2 parties and you get only the same 2 results...steal from the upper and middle class and give to the lazy poor, or smootch up to big business and put the screws to the middle class.
    Time for Americans to make a decision.
  8. WyomingSwede

    WyomingSwede Guest

    I disagree...The grassroots people are a powerful force.

    It is easy to sit back and curse the system...much more difficult to enter the fray and take part.

    As I tell my political representatives...I am a voter and I have a long memory....and I talk to a lot of people.

    Give you a good example...judges...I vote against retention of judges just on principle because I do not believe that anyone should have a lifetime job without checks & balances.

    A few years ago in northern Wyoming...a judge gave a certified sex offender a slap on the wrist...not once but three times. That same individual raped and dismembered an 8 yr old girl.
    The judge said that he still would have rendered the same decision even if he appeared before him a fourth time.
    Guess what...three months later...the only example in Wyoming history of a sitting judge getting voted off the bench.

    This is called being accountable to the people and the voters.

  9. Admin

    Admin Active Member Staff Member

    Feb 9, 2001
    I myself would like to thank Marlin for his post.

    After 30-plus years on the bench, to have such an outstanding
    PRO-Constitutional TFF Member as this member is,......it's an honor
    to have you abord Sir!

    I'd also like to add one other thing, let me remind those wo have
    been with us for quite some time, and also inform all of our new friends that have graced us with their presense, that TFF was
    devoloped long before it ever came to be, and was started, and
    based upon the idea of not only having an informative site for
    those of us who enjoy firearms and wish to share our knowledge
    of such, and various shared views of constitional issues and all
    types of subject matter from A-Z, but one of the "MANY" things
    that makes "Unlike No Other"(TFF Motto)is the wide range of
    diversity which not only consists of subject matter & people,
    but the fact that we can all agree to disagree.

    I would also like to point out that both Shizamus & Wyomingswede not only make some interesting and
    valid points in their postings, but here we see a prime
    example of what TFF was meant to be, started out as,
    and remains as such today.

    A diverse crew, along with a diverse membership/civil difference
    of opinion is what TFF is all about folks!

    And that is my opinion/weekend commentary!

    Hat's off to you ALL! :)

    Carry On Folks!:)
  10. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

    Sep 11, 2002
    Colorado Rocky Mountains
    I totally agree with you, that if a person wants to change something, they have to “get involved.” Apathy of the masses is the biggest problem facing our rights and/or freedoms. But, when you say, “do they know you?” this raises the question, “how much of what you do gets through, or helps?”

    When I have phoned, I get a person sitting there “supposedly” marking down, which side of the issue I am on. When I send snail mail, I “sometimes” receive a canned “thank you” letter. When I e-mail, I get a canned e-mail response. I contact my representatives on a regular basis on numerous issues, but I seriously doubt that they “know” who I am. I sometimes wonder if they ever even get my correspondence, much less “count it.” I will continue to do what I think is best, even with doubts about their effectiveness, because this is the system that we have to work with.

    The other problem I have with politicians, is the difference between their campaign promises vs. their practices, AFTER getting elected into office. Once in office, it does little good to tell them that you will not vote for them again, once they have ALREADY stolen your rights and/or freedoms.
  11. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    pickenup, you bring up a valid issue. It is incumbent on all of us to make sure our elected officials know how we stand on certain issues. But what do you do when they ignore you? How do you ever know that they even read your mail?

    Every letter I've ever sent to a Congresscritter has been replied to with a form letter. I am 99% certain that the person I sent it to never read it. Their junior aide opened it, printed out a response, and was done with it.

    I carry no political clout as an individual. To pick up the phone and demand to speak with my Congressman would be fruitless (I've tried that). So what's a guy to do?

    This is where money comes in. Whether we agree with everything the NRA and other organizations do, we must support them with our hard-earned dollars. They do have the political clout that we don't.
  12. riderbob

    riderbob New Member

    Dec 19, 2002
    Just west of " You sure do live a long way from
    new ban

    One fundemental truth / problem with political office is that we give power to people who want it. Hence the whole professional politition thing. I wish that there was a quick fix but i guess revolution is out of the question. It most definatly will be if this new ban passes.

    "COLD DEAD HANDS" mean anthing to anybody?

  13. Predator Ridge

    Predator Ridge New Member

    Mar 25, 2003
    * First they came for the gun owners,
    and I did not speak out because I was not a gun owner.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for the Communists,
    and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

    Then they came for the Homosexuals,
    and I did not speak out because I was not a Homosexual.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists,
    and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

    - Pastor Niemoeller, victim of the Nazis
    *This paragraph was added to reflect the historical reality.
  14. Texan

    Texan New Member

    May 12, 2003
    New to the board, so I'm just going jump into the fire.

    I'm really starting to wonder how far this issue will go. Who thinks that we will have to take up arms to defend our 2nd Amendment? God forbid that it would go this far, but who would fight and possibly die for these rights or even take the risk of being a political prisoner? :confused:
  15. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

    Mar 27, 2003
    At SouthernMoss' side forever!
    Welcome to the Board, Texan. Glad you dove in and joined us.

    I believe there are many among us that would go so far.
  16. Zigzag2

    Zigzag2 Guest

    Hello Texan, and welcome.

    Good question, it's been debated on several occasions and believe me, it can become a "heated" disscussion.

    So, on that note... we try to agree to disagree ;)
  17. BlueTic

    BlueTic New Member

    Apr 8, 2003
    Yeah - just jump right into it Texan - and welcome.
    I believe we have the right to voice our opinion to our representatives. If your representatives ignore the people on this most fundamental issue, then you can try to vote them out (jeesh too late, they already voted away a constitutionaly guarenteed right) but the replacemnet will be the same, money grubbing career politician. When do you take up your your arms and fight what is wrong, as directed by our founding fathers????????? At what point???? When they say - you can't have this one weapon? Or those 500 type of weapons?? Or all weapons that the people can "USE TO APPOSE A TYRANT"????????
    Now Wyoming - this is just my opinion - and I have contacted my rep's and have received back the same form letters. At some point they have to know the Force of the American People is not made up of sheep, or docile, laydown and take it, all we can do is whine, and hope the system fixes itself - people.
    I do not think our founding fathers intended this 2nd ammendment to be taken lightly by either side of the issue. This is our Responsibility and it is to be Feared by our goverment. If the goverment refuses to respect WE THE PEOPLE and our rights - it is our RESPONSIBILITY to take up arms and change the goverment.
    Today our goverment could give a rats --- and does not fear us in the least. Can you answer the above questions for me??? At what point do you do something???? If the answer is never, then I feel that you have lost. Again just an opinion from some faceless e-body.
  18. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    Hey Texan, I see you found TFF! If you'd get your ass back to Texas where you belong, then maybe we could make a stand together. ;)

    I wonder how many people were saying this same thing way back in 1934 when the NFA was passed. Maybe a few patriots defended their right to bear arms, but the majority of Americans simply gave them up. And again in 1968, I'm sure there was a lot of brave talk, but most Americans again relented. It keeps happening over and over.

    Will the same thing happen again? Will we finally stand up to tyranny, or will we simply move the "line in the sand" back a few more feet?
  19. kaylan1

    kaylan1 New Member

    Mar 24, 2003
    Texas part of tornada alley
    hey Texan welcome to the board, I agree with 1952 Sniper, git back here and stand with us. You'll be back soon enough, I left fer a spell. Went to the pacific Northwest, it was perdy an all, but I needs more sunshine, big 5lb. bass by the bucket full and tornados close by for the chasin:D

    I sent my e-mail to the commander-in-chief.
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