WE NEED OUR DEMOCRACY BACK!

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by BGH, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. BGH

    BGH New Member

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    So We've had so damn long of the liberals corrupting our government and economy that I think it's time for us to take back our democracy. Our country was born on the back of democracy, hell that's the entire point of of our forefathers revolution!!!!

    Our poll number show what, less than a quarter of all americans vote? Well lets start a campaign to get people out to the polls. Democracy is NOT a spectator SPORT!! It's the core of what makes America! and I bet if we all actually get out to the polls Obummer, won't stand a chance at re-election. As it is now, just over 1/8th of the population has to vote for Mr. Obummer, for him to get elected, and i'm sure that's what happened last time. So lets all get out there, get our family and friends to get out there and actually VOTE!!!

    And while we're at it, why not get a proposition or constitutional amendmen or something to change the way corporations are run, to STOP THIS CRONEY CAPTIALISM. Right now they are monarchies, JUST LIKE KING GEORGE, how un-American is that? Wouldn't it be much more American to have them run democratically?
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  2. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

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    Our nation was founded as a Republic. Democracy in government does not work. Democracy is a big reason we are in the shape we are today. As soon as people began expanding their democratic practices in government they found that they could vote entitlements and a lot of juicy programs that are unsustainable.

    Our founders had it right with limited democracy and inherent rights for the people. A true democratic society has never flourished at anytime in history.
  3. BGH

    BGH New Member

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    When I say Democracy I mean representative deomcracy, A republic. But still would you rather have the alternative, Monarchies, tyrants and dictators?
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  4. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    Words have meaning and when you don't use the right words ignorant people do not learn the truth because the truth is rarely longer taught in our schools.

    We are a Republic.

    What better way to slip and slide down the slope into the mud of socialism by teaching the children and ignorant adults that we are a socialist society by the erroneous use of the word Democracy.

    We are a Republic.
  5. BGH

    BGH New Member

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    When you say a Republic, do you mean one like the Romans and Greeks had, where Citizen was an important and distinct position, and most people were slaves or freedmen and had no say in the government?
  6. rcairflr

    rcairflr Well-Known Member

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    You lost me with your last paragraph. You want a constitutional amendment or something to change the way corporations are run? What do you want, the rest of the jobs in this country to go to China?

    You sound more like a liberal than a conservative to me.

    Corporations are owned by people. The stockholders elect a board of directors, the board of directors select the people who run corporation. The people who run the corporation hire people to work for them. So you want to let the government decide how to run a corporation, the government can't even run itself.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  7. BGH

    BGH New Member

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    It's better than mini tyrannies extorting the majority of us. Are you for freedom and democracy or a mini aristocracy dictating YOUR LIFE? do you want a say in what goes on in your life or someone above you telling you everything you can do?

    besides all the jobs that CAN go to china are already there because the people had no say in where they went, so the Kings oh so kindly made a buck out of putting innocent americans out of work. If the CEO's are held accountable to their own employees they won't put them out of work to move them to china.


    Or are you anti-freedom?
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  8. jedwil

    jedwil Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    So, your response is that you want the government running corporations? You think that is freedom and democracy?
    The government could protect our corporations from unfair trade practices of other countries, with import taxes that make slave labor not so attractive, lower corporate taxes. That's the role of government, not dictating CEO salaries, etc.
  9. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

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    Originally Posted by BGH
    So We've had so damn long of the liberals corrupting our government and economy that I think it's time for us to take back our democracy. Our country was born on the back of democracy, hell that's the entire point of of our forefathers revolution!!!!


    And while we're at it, why not get a proposition or constitutional amendmen or something to change the way corporations are run, to STOP THIS CRONEY CAPTIALISM. Right now they are monarchies, JUST LIKE KING GEORGE, how un-American is that? Wouldn't it be much more American to have them run democratically?

    Kinda sounds like flat out communism doesn't it.
  10. rcairflr

    rcairflr Well-Known Member

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    Thats exactly what I was thinking. In my first post when I said, he sounds like a liberal, I was wrong, he sounds like a communist.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  11. BGH

    BGH New Member

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    Where in there does that say anything about paying people to sit on their ass?
  12. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    The US today has a NOTHING form of government, meaning we are neither a democracy nor a republic. The word/term "democracy" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution or in the Declaration of Independence. Article 4 section 4 of the Constitution guarantees each state a Republican form of government. All of which was lost in 1913 by the adoption of the 17th amendment that put senators into office by the people of their respective states rather than being appointed by the states legislature as mandated by the Constitution, see Article 1 section 3. If we were a true democracy we could all vote against dogs like Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid. Think about Harry who comes from a state with less than three million people and he controls a senate that represents 350 million people. It was never ever supposed to be that way and until that is changed we are doomed.

    When the states lost their ability to appoint their Representative(senator) through the 17th amendment our republic was lost. FYI the 16th amendment (income tax) also came in 1913 two months behind the 17th. Also in 1913 the Federal Reserve was created. The stage was set, congress no longer controlled the printing or value of money as provided by Article 1 section 8 subsection 5 of the Constitution. Congress through the IRS was now able collect taxes with the use of a gun and the threat of prison allowing them to collect as much as they want to spend and the senate who was to be the watchdog over the House of Representatives tacitly became one of THEM because the people and NOT the state put them in office. A real good analogy would be like depending on wolves to watch over your sheep.

    It was Plato (about 450 BC) who said a democracy fails when the people can get their hands on the governments treasury through their elected officials.

    For those who do not understand the difference between a Republican form of government and a democracy it is best explained that in a democracy there is only one group or one entity that is represented. If it is people and only people that have rights and representation it is a democracy. With a republic the states have rights and representation just like the people. How can we call ourselves either? If we were a democracy the people could vote for anyone who represents them, something we cannot do. These dogs in the senate many of which sit on committees and vote on things that affect our daily lives and most won't even answer an email from someone outside their state.

    The fix is that it takes 34 states to call for a Constitutional convention to amend the Constitution and 38 states to ratify it. We can thank obozo that 28 states have aligned themselves against obozo care and getting six more in my opinion for a convention should be easy if we would just do it. Our states legislatures unlike our congress is afraid of us and they will listen.

    Ron
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  13. BGH

    BGH New Member

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    So only people appointed by the state governments should be able to serve in congress?
  14. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    No that is not what I stated. Congress is made up of the senate and the house of Representatives. The house is and has always been put into office by the people and each state is allowed so many based on population. The senate is made up of only two per state no matter the population of the state and congress was designed that the senate more or less has the last word giving the states greater power. Read the second amendment very closely. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free STATE, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The people and the state, it could not be more codified than as it is in the in the X amendment which provides: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Nothing could make it more clear; people and States are to be represented. Putting senators into office by the people caused the states to loose all of their representation an absolute violation of Article 4 section 4 of the Constitution. The states after 1913 lost their autonomy causing them to have zero representation. Congress has become one uncontrollable central government that really answers to no one.

    This whole issue was of a huge debate during the Constitutional Convention and was settled by a proposal from a guy as I recall named Richard Sherman from Connecticut causing it to be named the Connecticut Plan by some and or The Great Compromise by others.

    Ron
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  15. BGH

    BGH New Member

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    Very good points. I remember that well. However as the world changed so did america. The reason that the states had power in the senate was because at the time, we were less one nation than as a collection of nations associated via the federal government, that's why we use the term STATE. Traditionally STATE mean an independant nation, what is referred to as a nation state. However as time changed we began to grow more or less cohesive as a single nation.

    as for the direct V. appointed positions, I don't really care as long as there is a branch of the government which answers to the people, (in fact you could still look at the direct election as being the same thing, only with the people deciding which representatives to send for the state rather than the duely elected body). This has ceased to be as both houses not rely on answering to their corporate master the croneys for their financial support, and that means that in reality, the government only serves about .65% of the people, not the 1% as the OWS idiots think but even less. This is what has given rise to our current situation, the new aristocracy, and the wholesale destruction of any democracy we had. And yes, a republic is a democracy by definition.
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