WE WIN!!! No Sharia Law for Australia

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by jack404, May 17, 2011.

  1. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-push-for-sharia/story-fn59niix-1226057476571


    Attorney-General Robert McClelland says there is 'no place' for sharia law in Australia
    Patricia Karvelas From: The Australian May 17, 2011 1:54PM 17 comments


    ATTORNEY-GENERAL Robert McClelland has killed any calls for sharia law in Australia arguing there is no place for it in the Gillard Governments debate around its new multicultural policy.

    In its submission to the parliamentary inquiry into the government's new multiculturalism policy, The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils has called for Muslims to be offered "legal pluralism".

    Mr McClelland said is no place for Sharia Law in Australian society and the Government strongly rejects any proposal for its introduction.

    "As our citizenship pledge makes clear, coming to Australia means obeying Australian laws and upholding Australian values," he said.

    "Australia's brand of multiculturalism promotes integration. If there is any inconsistency between cultural values and the rule of law then Australian law wins out."

    He said we are all blessed to live in a stable democracy underpinned by the rule of law.

    "People who migrate to Australia do so because of the fact that we have a free, open and tolerant society where men and woman are equal before the law irrespective of race, religious or cultural background.

    "Indeed all applicants for citizenship swear a collective allegiance to the people of Australia and undertake to respect our customs and abide by our laws," the Attorney-General said.

    "The values underpinning those principles will not be changing."

    His comments follow a submission from the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils to a parliamentary inquiry into the government's new multiculturalism policy, arguing that Muslims should enjoy "legal pluralism".

    In an interview with The Australian, the organisation's president, Ikebal Adam Patel, who wrote the submission, nominated family law and specifically divorce as an area where moderate interpretations of sharia could co-exist within the Australian legal system.

    In the submission, the AFIC acknowledges some Muslims believe Islamic law is immutable, regardless of history, time, culture and location.

    "They claim that Muslims may change, but Islam will not," it says.

    The AFIC argues this is not the case and sharia can be applied in a way that fits in to Australia and is not extreme.

    "This means most of the regulations in Islamic law may be amended, changed, altered, and adapted to social change.

    "Therefore, Muslims Australia-AFIC takes the position that Islamic law is changeable according to the requirements of different places and times, and therefore suits the values shared by Australian people," the submission says.

    A hardline reading of sharia confers unilateral divorce rights on men, while women who initiate divorce are stripped of their property and financial entitlements.

    A more moderate interpretation and common practice in Islamic countries is to recognise divorce by mutual consent.

    In the interview, Mr Patel said: "I'm saying that instead of letting the extremists within Islam take over the agenda, we are saying there is a path whereby it will work for all the communities in a moderate way.

    "It is important for someone who is Muslim or a practising Jew that aspects of our religion which can be incorporated within the greater legal system are introduced.

    "This is about personal issues about family, and won't affect any other Australian," he said.

    "It's about a system that does not impinge on the rights of any other Australian."

    In its submission to the inquiry, the AFIC says criticisms of sharia as being biased against women and treating them as second-class citizens are wrong.

    "It is important for Muslims to seriously consider this criticism," the submission says.

    "But it is also important for the Australian government to respect the rights of Muslim women who want to keep and maintain the way they dress, eat and interact with others, as long as such behaviour does not inflict harm to others.

    "Muslims in Australia should accept the Australian values, and Australia should provide a 'public sphere' for Muslims to practise their belief. It takes two to tango.

    "This approach demands a compromise from Islam, which should be open to other values, and also to make a similar demand of Australia.

    "It is not only Australian Muslims who should reconcile these identities, but all Australians."

    Mr Patel says the AFIC, as the peak body of Islamic organisations in Australia, "strongly supports that multiculturalism should lead to legal pluralism . . . and twin tolerations".

    The submission cites regulations governing Islamic finance and halal certification in Australia as examples of how legal pluralism can work.

    British law since 1996 has allowed for alternative dispute resolution through sharia tribunals, the rulings of which are enforceable in county courts and the High Court.

    The submission calls on the inquiry members to consider "hard questions" from Muslim communities.

    "Muslims are required to have social integration with the majority of people in Australia: what does this really mean? Should Muslims remove the hijab, dress like others, drink alcohol and go to the pub to demonstrate they have actually integrated?"

    In most Western countries, the submission notes, the idea of an "Islamic family tribunal or arbitration is likely to fuel the debate on radicalism and liberalism".

    "But is it true that Australia will never consider Islamic law?" it asks.

    "It seems that in two areas, namely Islamic finance and halal food, the Australian government has been actively involved.

    "So although the Attorney-General ruled out introducing Islamic law, or sharia, at the same time Australian financial institutions are encouraged to do much more to attract Muslim business by developing innovative products which comply with Islamic law.

    "Apart from the economic motive, how can we reconcile the conflicting statement and fact?"

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    well well well

    Hope just got a little brighter ...

    see what can happen when ya work for it ??

    The Good Lord always rewards honest toil

    Thank You Lord!

    My nation just got a small but significant Blessing
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  2. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Great news, Jack! I don't think your fight is over (and I know you don't, either), but it's good to get a solid win from time to time.
  3. Brisk44

    Brisk44 New Member

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    A step in the right direction, Glad for ya Jack
  4. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    as stated its a small Blessing , it aint absolution just yet

    yes a long way to go but this makes the sharia cry mute and anti Australian

    its like if i demanded machine guns here , its wrong , but them bunnies are coming back in numbers , if we could get semi auto .22's back on the books for the sports hunter , we could help the environment a lot eh ... ;)

    and thats how they'll play it too , soft Sharia like they have in a couple of places in the US .. watch how they start to isolate and dominate a small country population center next here , thats how the game book goes , then they elect their own council and make build do what they want as they do in a couple US towns now .. your constitution prevents them from making a legal attempt at sharia unlike here , but thats been shot down.. in the US they went straight to soft sharia , get a place and fill it with brethren , vote in their own folks and make life for none islamics tough , ( Dearborn? (sp?) ) other religions especially .. 90% of US terrorists caught overseas are from these communities , the rest , converts ... so watch it eh ..



    here thats ok, i hope , we've been working on the CWA for a while now ( Country Womans Association)

    but looks like i better start these speaking tours/ education nights we been talking about

    and when we see where the islamists are heading cut em off early , educate and organise the locals and VOTE no ., but you gotta get in early , document it all and play it back for the lawmakers and show em what the next election holds ...

    lot's to do , lot's to do ..

    but considering this was yesterdays news

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-push-for-sharia/story-fn59niix-1226057100331

    THE nation's peak Muslim group is using the Gillard government's re-embracing of multiculturalism to push for the introduction of sharia in Australia, but it says it would be a more moderate variety of Islamic law that fits with Australian values.

    it makes the past 3 months worth of rushing about meeting all the slime ball politicians and their minders, inumerable emails and faxes, letters to editors , comments on online news items , getting public opinion to be just that , public ..

    all worth while .. [​IMG]

    even the half pie ( aussie slang for half wit) attempts to make me out to be a liar /criminal/fake/fraud/racist take a back seat today ;)

    but lot's to do
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  5. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    Thats right, it does take two to tango.

    Well this is some great news for freedom and human rights, congrats Jack and EVERYBODY of the Down Under.

    [​IMG]
  6. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Marlin i WAS gonna head up top today to check out where that photo you sent me was took i've figured it about 200 yards to the right of where i was , but theres a impromptu celebration happening here , and online so i'll check later sorry for the delay but yeah the bush fire road runs along that section there along to the big radio towers and back down to the coast a bit further along ..

    and yes theres a lot of folks from many groups who deserve a pat on the back on this
    pages of them

    but theres a lot still to do ..
  7. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    WOOOO HOOOO! Good news jack!!!
  8. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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  9. hogger129

    hogger129 Active Member

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    I'm a strong believer in freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Meaning practice any religion you want, but don't impose it on other people.

    Good to hear Jack.
  10. Willie

    Willie Active Member

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    Total seperation of church and state.... that is the only way to be. If the Church....any Church...... gets to control the state,freedom will be lost by someone. It is important to believe but it also is important to not force those beliefs on others. Is that what this country was founded on?
  11. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    Yes that is a very good piece, thanks for the heads up.

    Congrats again to Australia, what a sigh of relief. I know that this is not a time to relax, but dang good job people.

    Now if we can educate people here in the US of how islam really works the better off we will be. Maybe we too can stop our creeping sharia problem.


    Jack, that Illawarra Fly looks like a pretty cool place. Was that a fire observation post originally?


  12. permafrost

    permafrost Active Member

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    Jack,
    I don't have a clue as to how many have been fighting for this with you , but I'm sure you deserve a place in the fore front! great work! You are still an inspiration to us to get off our collective duffs and become more involved over here. Kinda like looking at our own future if we don't. Thanks, in more ways than one.
  13. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Marlin i honestly dont know , but i'll ask when i head up that way next

    i've been near it but never on it ( $$) i think it was built as a fire observation tower ( its the same as those in other places ) but i'll ask a expert and let you know ( still not up with the touristy stuff yet )
  14. American Leader

    American Leader Active Member

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    Congrats Jack!
  15. Buckshot

    Buckshot Active Member

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    Awesome news. Congratulations, Jack!!!!!!

    That's PRECISELY why Islam and Sharia law is such a threat to western democracies/republics. Islam and Sharia control EVERY aspect of life. It IS the government and it IS the religion and it IS the moral code. All rolled into one. There is no separation of anything! And NO quarter given non-adherents.
    Last edited: May 18, 2011
  16. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    "It takes two to tango, eh?"

    Tell them to go to Argentina, then. :D

    Good Job, Well Done, Jack!

    Pops
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2011
  17. kodimirpal

    kodimirpal New Member

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    Here is an example to consider. Should we totally shut out Sharia considerations? Are there not extra-ordinary situatiosn that require accommodation?

    Ali, a taxi man, an Australian citizen (Indonesian origin) married Mariam in 1990 and had three sons ( now aged 19, 16, 12 names : Abbas, Aziz, Ahmed), his mother Fatima, lives in Indonesia. Ali’s wife Mariam dies in 2009.

    Ali legally marries a widow Apsa who has had two kids by her previous marriage and Ali never thought of writing a will and within a matter of a few weeks after his marriage to Apsa, Ali dies in a horrendous road accident at the age of 52 and his only wealth is his bank balance of $144,000 in a Time Deposit Account and by the Australian law, his entire life time savings of $144,000 goes into the private bank account of a woman and to her children ( not Ali's) Ali had slept with for a few days.

    Fatima, Ali’s poor Indonesian mother comes to Australia and pleads at the courts, because the Quranic law gives a share to the parents in their children’s estate.

    She says, please consider an option to divide her son’s estates based on the Islamic law given in the Quran by which she would get $24,000, Apsa her daughter in law for few weeks gets $18,000 and Ali’s three sons by his first marriage each gets $34,000. May I ask justice seeking Australians to weigh the options? Is it not possible in a situation like this to accommodate justice based Shariah laws in the West?
    Or should we say go to hell.
  18. Warith

    Warith Member

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    IMHO fatima gets nothing however his true sons could appeal and get a portion of his estate and probley win that. They may asked for a share for Fatima if Ali was supporting her before his death. Mind you that is just my opinion and we all know what those are.
  19. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    heck this is a toughy , but clear , if i may ask is this real life ? ..

    ok under western law we have a system whereby the person should make a will , a very basic document pretty much anyone can write one themselves and it'll be legal and upheld unless theres something weird ..

    and yes the son's could appeal and support of the grandmother would be grounds as well ( strengthening case) and it would be decided pretty fairly unless someone stacks the deck ( brings in lots of big lawyers) but i dont see that happening here

    Koranic law ( law derived from the Koran and brought into the sharia as there really is no Koranic law) states the exact terms of wealth distribution and it would take a team of mullahs to change it

    so if sharia was in it would not help the masses , it would do things its way regardless of who or what was involved

    where as the will is a hassle to ensure its updated and correct but its flexable , if Ali had a current will this problem would be resolved as ALI wished it .... there is no flexability in islam or the sharia

    if i may ask when was the last time a sharia court upheld a appeal to a estate ?

    1972 Riyad , Saudi , so a cousin could take a title not a object or funds, from a deceased relative instead of the son , and they character assassinated the son in the court to do so , no other record since ..

    islam, all is possible if your at the top

    if you aint ..

    welcome to the forum by the way , how's things up your way ?


    as a add on

    Ali came to Australia,

    to come here you agree to obey and recognise the laws of australia AS THEY ARE

    its aint perfect , i know first hand , some things suck .. but thats the deal , if you wish to live where you have the protection of the sharia , go there , but please do not try to force this onto those who do not wish it , there are many muslim nations , a few more recently in fact .. why put onto us what these places say is dangerous ?

    Sure come to Australia be Muslim , live well and be happy , but you come here to do so , not to make us what dont work elsewhere , become Australians , it aint half bad eh ..
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  20. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    IMHO, he was more than middle aged, people die everyday, he SHOULD have made a will and had it in effect long before the accident. Thats just good planning.

    Nobody ever plans to die in an accident but everyone should consider that these things happen and plan accordingly. I am still young yet, but I do have a living will, as does my wife. If I die in a horrible road accident tomorrow, my children and my wife will be well taken care of. I have even arranged for my final expenses should I expire today, next week, or next year.

    IMO, it is the MANS responsibilty and duty to ensure his family is well taken care of both during his life with them and after his death. No religion should ever supercede this duty IMO...
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