Webley British Bulldog

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by buttacoli, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. buttacoli

    buttacoli New Member

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    I have read other treads on these but haven't found one that looks like this one. I would like to know more about the following firearm, including possible current worth;
    CAL .450
    Belgium proof mark
    Webley British Bull Dog
    Double action
    Grooved boar
    .44 short cal Rim fire (black powder only)

    Thank you

    Attached Files:

  2. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    It's not a Webley but a decent Belgian copy.

    I doubt it's .44 rimfire caliber, and think I see a centerfire firing pin visible in left side view.

    Please post another photo with hammer cocked, and one of top view.

    The grips are nice and should add value, but probably bone and not ivory.
  3. buttacoli

    buttacoli New Member

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    Here are the other pics I have. The only markings are on the barrel and under the grip. I don't have a pic of the hammer cocked but it has a tooth or fang like striker. I will get you one.
    Kinda thought it was a Belgium copy. Even if it is a center fire piece would it is still for black powder cartridge only?
    Thanks for the info.

    Regards.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  4. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    :) ?, If it is marked .450 on the barrel, how did you come up with .44 rim fire? The barrel markings of .450 means it is made for either the .450 Webley, the .450 Revolver or the .450 Adams, all of which seem to interchange. Being .450 means it is center fire. The cartridge used is obsolete.
  5. buttacoli

    buttacoli New Member

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    "The British Bull Dog was a popular type of solid-frame pocket revolver introduced by Philip Webley & Son of Birmingham, England in 1872 and subsequently copied by gunmakers in Continental Europe and the United States.[1] It featured a 2.5-inch (64*mm) barrel and was chambered for five .44 Short Rimfire, .442 Webley, or .450 Adams cartridges. Webley produced smaller scaled .320 Revolver and .380 caliber versions later, but did not mark them with the British Bull Dog name."

    Leading me to think the .44, .442 and the .450 were all interchangeable.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  6. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the added pics, and one of the hammer won't be needed:

    The barrel marking identifies caliber as the British black powder .450 revolver round that preceded the smokeless powder .455 round used in the Webley military revolvers.

    That and lack of markings on the top strap suggests to me a Belgian copy intended for 19th century export to South America where the .450 was popular, while most exported to USA were .442 caliber, aka .44 Webley.

    As an antique and above average copy, it might bring $300 or so in an online auction.
  7. buttacoli

    buttacoli New Member

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    So the markings under the grip are Belgian.
    Thank you for the info and the education.

    Regards.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  8. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    When you listed that it had a Belgian proof mark, I assumed it had the familiar ELG in an oval Liege proof on the cylinder.

    Most of these were made in the Liege area by "cottage industry" workmen, rather than an organized firm, and they all have assorted unidentified marks under the grips that may identify who did what part of the work, etc.

    Look on rear face of the cylinder between two chambers for the ELG mark
  9. buttacoli

    buttacoli New Member

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    I understand that Li├Ęge is a major city in Belgium but I have it, and the E over LG, listed as an English/British proof mark. Could Webley have contract out the manufacturing?
    In addition the list I'm attaching dates that mark between 1811 and 1892, so it will be interesting to see if it is there.

    Attached Files:

  10. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    I have seen that faulty chart online, and am surprised it has never been corrected.

    Only the first two lines are British, and there should be a new heading "Belgian Proof Marks" before the ELG in oval.

    Liege is the city in Belgium where their proofhouse is located.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  11. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen that chart before and I certainly understand how it would cause confusion. Buttcoli, rest assured your Bulldog was made in Belgium.
  12. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    No, that's like saying the Colt 1911 Automatic is chambered in 45 ACP, 9mm Luger or 38 Super. Three completely different cartridges that the gun could be chambered in.

    Or like saying the Ford F100 pickup can be ordered with a 300 cid 6-cylinder, a 302 V-8 or a 351 V-8. Just different available engines. No one would think they were interchangeable.



    added: Although I can understand your thinking. I have a gun that is chambered in 380 ACP, in 9x17mm and in 9mm Browning Short. Three completely different names for the same cartridge.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  13. rustyh547

    rustyh547 New Member

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    If It has the Oval w/ELG in it 44 British Bulldog and perfect yellowed bone grips whats the value ? Thanks rustyh547
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