Webley Mark I

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Ken W, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. Ken W

    Ken W Member

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    Yeah, that sucks. You practically have to carry a veritable encyclopedia of information and pictures with you along with a box full of tools. :(
  2. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    yep.. already as it is i carry a bore light and a loop to see proofs and numbers.. plus my atf 5300 publication to check cr status and my crffl. starts getting tedius. ;)
  3. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Now, after seeing the other pictures, I'm not as sure about the serial number being on the cylinder face of Webleys.:eek:n I may be thinking of the .455 S&Ws

    The next question is if a MkVI cylinder is asking $175.00, what would a MkI bring? (They are different and the MkI's are really scarce.) Would it add 2 or 300 to the value? I have no idea....

    Added: Just remembered.... The serial number on the cylinder (at least on later Mks) is around the outside of the cylinder at the back edge. When the cylinder had been milled about the upper portion of this number is lost.
    (I noticed that the pictures shown have carefully(?) avoided showing this section of the cylinder.)
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  4. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    i did see some proofs on the face of a few cyls in some pics...
  5. jjmitchell60

    jjmitchell60 Active Member

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    hrf nailed the ammo as to 455. I order it for a customer from time to time and trust me, NOT CHEAP AT ALL!!!! Te best is to buy a mold, cast your own bullets, buy brass, and load your own. Much cheaper that way. Starline was carrying the brass.

    As stated, where that one was shaved, value way high and safety is an issue. Replaceing cylinder only devalues it more or at least keeps it low as the shaving of the cylinder. I see them pop up at shows from time to time unshaved and in very good condition for in the $800 range and that is dealers tables at that.
  6. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    Incidently, the oversized "broad arrow" on top strap and N on hump behind the hammer on one shown identify it as one issued to the Royal Navy.
  7. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The revolver in the OP's pictures has been converted to use .45 ACP with half-moon clips or .45 Auto-Rim. As such, it is not, IMHO, worth $1000; more like $750.

    For anyone owning such a gun, I STRONGLY recommend NOT firing full charge loads in either in that gun. For shooting, I suggest using .45 AR if possible, then using a load that won't exceed 12,000 psi. .455 or cases made from .45 Colt will give excess headspace.

    That Mk I still has the recoil shield made as part of the frame; they changed to the dovetail type later in production. The military proof and inspection marks and the broad arrows indicate that was a military gun and as hrf says, one issued to the Royal Navy or Marines. Mine (#805) is a civilian gun with TWO sets of proof marks, the original Birmingham marks and a set of later London marks. (I don't know why; it was not converted and is still in .455.)

    As others have noted, the cylinder retaining screw is not original. It should be a large head screw with a wide coin-type slot and the threads under the head.

    Jim
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  8. Ken W

    Ken W Member

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    So it's one of the original ones then? That's makes it a double shame that it has been altered. Wonder how many are actually left that are all original?


    I'd have to agree. Shame, it probably would have fetched the guy a decent price if it hadn't had the cylinder messed with. Not that $750 is chump change. ;)
  9. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    FWIW, here is a quick way to tell if a Webley cylinder has been shaved. If a dime won't fit or won't fit easily easily between the cylinder and the recoil shield, the gun is in the original .455. If a quarter will fit, the cylinder has been shaved.

    Jim
  10. 45Auto

    45Auto Active Member

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    That MKI is also a reblue. Not a bad job at all, but not original and cuts down on value.

    Ammo: Some years ago, I bought a .455 hollow base mold. It was not cheap but it's the only way to go if you want affordable and accurate ammo. For the MK I, black powder works best, it gives an impressive boom and the old boy hits the target, can't ask for more.
  11. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    is the 455 fioochi safe to shoot?
  12. Ken W

    Ken W Member

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    I no longer endorse this item. I went back to look at it again and pass on more information that I have discovered from responses here and at another forum plus my own research. He still has it marked as 455 and refuses to change it despite the pictures I emailed him and the detailed explanation I provided. There actually is remnants of the serial number on the cylinder he pointed out, matching no less. I pointed out that all of the numbers were not visible on account of the cylinder being shaved. He replied that "I don't care" even though I mentioned that it would be dangerous for anyone to fire non black powder or very low hand loaded rounds in .45 auto and also if someone tried to fire a .455 in it on account of the excessive headspace. He figured that if someone buys it that doesn't know what it is than it's their problem. This is very disturbing and, I hate to say, probably typical of small shops like this all over. All they give a damn about it profit. What a wonderful system.
    If after all of this someone is still interested in it you can PM me and I'll provide the contact info. Don't expect a change in the $1,000 price tag though. At least until it sits there a few months.
  13. Ken W

    Ken W Member

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    I can't say for certain. It's specs are fairly low powered, listed below:

    Technical Information
    Caliber: 455 Webley Mark 2
    Bullet Weight: 262 Grain
    Bullet Style: Lead Round Nose
    Case Type: Brass

    Ballistics Information:
    Muzzle Velocity: 655 fps
    Muzzle Energy: 420 ft. lbs.


    Even so I'm not sure I'd try it without getting a definite answer from an expert on the matter.
  14. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The problem with firing those "shaved" revolvers with .455 ammo is not with the pressure, but with the unsupported rear end of the case resulting from excess headspace. If the revolver is loaded with .455 ammunition, the cartridge will fall into the chamber until it is stopped by the rim. But when the round is fired (assuming the firing pin can reach the primer), the case will move back, and part of the case will be unsupported, possibly resulting in the case failing and releasing gas. Even at the low pressure of the .455, that would not be good and could result in injury to the shooter. That will not happen with the .45 ACP case, which has a stronger head than the typical British .455, but the .45 ACP standard load runs over twice the pressure of the .455, inviting trouble in the old revolvers.

    I reiterate my advice; fire those guns only with lightly loaded .45 ACP and clips, or with lightly loaded .45 Auto Rim.

    Jim
  15. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    yep.. so if shaved.. lite 45acp..

    what about the auto rim 45 you mention.. what are it's pressures like? would it have to be laoded low as well?

    and when you mean low? do you mean the lowest 'starting' charge on a regular 45acp?

    sounds like the real safe bet is to find an unshaved one and load with 455 then?
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