Well, he called again....

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by Silver72, Mar 23, 2005.

  1. Silver72

    Silver72 New Member

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    and this time it was a 1943 Colt, six digit serial with the slide having a matching number. The gun has been fired enough to just start a reverse impression of the slide number on the back of the firing pin stop. This makes three he has offered me in the past 1-2 years. Always says this is the last he will sell. Today he said he probably only had about 10 left, "Duh?"

    The serial number falls within 2 digits of getting a hit on the Springfield Research Site for an "OSS CBI". Darn!

    [​IMG]
  2. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Geez....you have all the tough luck, don'tcha Silver!

    Drool......drool!
  3. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Dang you, Silver! I'm jealous! Nice pistola. ;)
  4. Silver72

    Silver72 New Member

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    Do either of you experts have any idea why the top of the frame, near the disconnector does not have the normal "G", but a 6, or a 9 and there is also an M, or W, according to which way they are viewed? Everthing else about the gun is correct.
  5. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    That's a strange one Silver.

    The normal "G" was a production order and meant a Government order. It was usually (after 1924) found in the 4 o'clock position in relation to the disconnector hole.....but I do know of cases of Colt wartime pistols where there was no "G" mark.

    Clauson does mention a "W" (for Webley) production order marking that has been observed on some caliber .455 barrels, recievers, and slides.

    I don't know what a 6 or a 9 in the disconnector hole area would mean. Early M1911s had an assembler's mark in that area, but it usually was an initial.....and in September 1918 it was moved to the trigger guard.

    However, Clauson also says: "Other letters, numbers, and geometric symbols identified as factory marks indicate "in process" inspections at various stages of manufacture."

    I think that probably that's what you have.

    BTW.....that OSS CBI operation was probably in Burma. The OSS supported and advised Burmese Kachin and Karen Tribesmen in their guerilla war against the Jap Army which occupied Burma during WWII.
  6. dvl

    dvl New Member

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    He called again...

    Where do we submit our phone numbers?
  7. lead

    lead Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I want this guy to have my phone number! Tell him I'll accept collect calls!
  8. Silver72

    Silver72 New Member

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    Xracer, here is a pic of the frame top.

    [​IMG]
  9. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    From the photo I can't tell if that's a 6 or 9.....or could it possibly be an "S"?

    If it's a 6 or 9, I don't know what it is. If it's an "S", that would make sense. The commercial Government Models were marked there with an "S" (for Commercial "Sales").....and in late '42 and early '43, a number of unsold Government Models were transferred to the current military contract.

    From Clawsen: "Beginning in October 1942 the acute need for pistols prompted Colt to transfer 6,575 unsold commercial Government Model automatic pistols to their existing military contract."

    These were formerly in the civilian serial # range from C207000 to C215083. The "GOVERNMENT MODEL" and serial #s were hammered flat and overstamped with "UNITED STATES PROPERTY M1911A1 U.S. ARMY" and military serial #s from 860003 to about 866675.

    Check the UNITED STATES PROPERTY and serial # over the right hand grip & trigger with a magnifying glass......does it appear to be an overstamp?

    Even if yours is not an "overstamp" model, you could still have a frame that started life as a civilian.

    Again, according to Clawsen: "Commercial components in the in the early stages of manufacture were also transferred to the military contract. Receivers and slides that were initially under manufacture for commercial sales were marked with Colt's commercial sale mark "S", which was stamped near the disconnector hole on recievers and in the wide clearance groove on slides. Most of these components were scattered in the 795000 to 890000 serial range and were marked with standard military markings."

    Sooooo......check that 6 or 9 with a good magnifying glass and see if it isn't an "S". If it is, you've got a civilian Colt that was drafted into the Army! :D
  10. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Does this help? Looks like a 'S' to me!

    Attached Files:

  11. Silver72

    Silver72 New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I thought of those things and it certainly is reasonable. I wish my digital camera were better. Under magnification it is a 9 not firmly struck. The top of the 9 is closed completely. I shot the pic using a tripod and the timer to pervent any movement. I'll just call the 9, or S, an S poorly struck as that is the most veasible explanation.

    The other letter is a W as the legs are not vertical, but out.

    I have an early 1942 Colt that has an under cut blued 1911 slide stop. Clawson refers to the use of any parts on hand in the early war production.
    Thanks agin for your thoughts.
    Bill
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