What do you guys think about this muzzle loader?

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

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    warpig883
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    (7/3/02 9:45:35 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    What do you guys think about this muzzle loader?
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    www.savagearms.com/muzzle...r_home.htm

    New Savage muzzle loader designed for smokeless powder.

    I for one am against using the modern whoop dee doo muzzle loaders during the muzzle loader season. The modern version of the muzzle loader is much more advanced than the old one that the traditional muzzle loader seasons were intended for.
    "I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE SOME REPORTERS PAWING THROUGH OUR PAPERS. WE ARE THE PRESIDENT." - Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents

    the real fredneck
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    (7/6/02 10:24:23 am)
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    WP, isn't that what technology is good for? even the modern ones are still single shots which is what the ML seasons are really all about

    kdub01
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    (7/6/02 1:43:25 pm)
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    As long as they load thru the muzzle, take a cap and are single-shot I will go along with the in-lines.

    Got rid of my T/C Renegade .50 cal a couple years ago due to failing eyesight and not able to focus on the iron sights. Got a T/C BlackDiamond .50 that I put a low power scope on. Now, I can enjoy blackpowder shooting/hunting with something I can reasonably expect to place a mortal shot with.

    Don't really think the in-lines are any faster or more accurate than the traditional cap & ball shooters - if you want to be a traditionalist, go with the flintlocks only, like they do in Penn.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    warpig883
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    (7/6/02 5:16:12 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    That is a good point about the flintlocks. What about the fancy new bows and archery equipment. Them danged things are better than muzzle loaders for accuracy and speed


    The new muzzleloader in question does not even use black powder or pyrodex, it uses regular smokeless powder.
    "I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE SOME REPORTERS PAWING THROUGH OUR PAPERS. WE ARE THE PRESIDENT." - Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 743
    (7/6/02 5:56:37 pm)
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    You're right, Pig -

    The Savage can, of course, shoot black or pyrodex, but who's gonna do that when it will handle the smokless?

    I've wrestled with myself over the pro's and con's of this particular rifle. It just doesn't seem to be a blackpowder rifle to me. 'Course, people could say the same of my T/C in-line, however, since I use the pellets and primer with it, I kid myself into believing it's no different that the ol' Renegade.

    With the use of smokless, I'd have to say the Savage is a muzzleloading modern singleshot rifle and should be considered as such.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    the real fredneck
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    (7/7/02 10:44:10 am)
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    kdub, have you had any experience with Hodgdon 777 ? the press on it reads great but is that just hype or reality?

    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5354
    (7/7/02 11:02:45 am)
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    In the early eighties, I was big into BP. Never saw Pyrodex that could come close to BP. We used 2FG with limited success in my .58 Hawkin. Moved to 4FG and worked up massive and accurate loads, barrel stayed pretty durn clean too. Stuffing 1 or 2 pellets of Pyrodex or the other ones, gives you less that what shelf loaded commercial ammo does. A lazy man`s loading system to save time loading. Save time loading??? How rediculous! LTS

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (7/7/02 12:15:23 pm)
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    No, Fred -

    Haven't tried the new stuff by Hodgdon or Clear Shot. Sorta like LTS - never found subsitutes that equaled 2F or 3F in the Renegade. Use the pellets in the inline for convenience (just hate the bp cleaning mess!).

    Dang, Mike - 4F in a .58?! The thought has what little hair I have left standing on end!

    Use the 3F and pyrodex 30 gr pellets in my 1858 Remington replica with the 148 gr Ballets over a treated felt wad with pretty good results.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    the real fredneck
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    (7/9/02 10:53:14 am)
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    LTS
    how many gr's of 4F would kdub need to fire swage a .58 to a .50?

    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (7/22/02 10:20:25 am)
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    Kdub, I wish I could remember the book I got the loads out of....but after twenty years the mind is a little fogged. The book, best I can remember was printed in 1978 or 1979 and was about, not only the history of BP....but African hunting too. The author was big into the "Big 5" with BP. The load was from his using the same rifle as I had at the time. The load of 4fg was for elephants and under a Maxi. Course there`s no elephants in Texas, but we had to try it. I remember the picture or the head wound of the elephant, but not any of the specifics. The wound (foggy memory) was something like.....a "D" cell battery and went thru 16" of bone (skull) to strike the brain. Boredom set in, so we worked up slowly in loading. We quit long before we reached this guys maximum load and where we stopped was just brutal to shoot. I cannot imagine going to his load, we were well under his. Wish I could remember the guys name, one of the first to take BP back to Africa in modern times(1980`s), for the Big 5. Seemed to take forever to measure out the powder in 50gr increments. DANG!!! Now I`m going to have to search him out, his load will scare the bejesus out of you. LTS
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