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"What do you tell people..."

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by vulcrider, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. Jay

    Jay New Member

    Joined:
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    Indiana
    This has been on the internet for several years, but it's about the best response to "why own a gun" that I've seen.....

    Why The Gun is Civilized
    By Marko Kloos
    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.
    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100 pound woman on equal footing with a 220 pound mugger, a 75 year old retiree on equal footing with a 19 year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a car load of drunken guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.
    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a (armed) mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed, either by choice or legislative fiat—it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.
    Then there’s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks or stones don’t constitute lethal force watch too much TV. There people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that’s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn’t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn’t both lethal and easily employable.
    When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I’m looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation….. And that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin
    “The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” Thomas Jefferson
  2. al45lc

    al45lc Active Member

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    colorful colorado
    My response depends on who's asking, some have asked for very obvious and mean spirited reasons.
    For these, I have borrowed from the Jeepers favorite line (I like it anyway)
    "It's a gun thing, you wouldn't understand"
    Most of my debates with those who don't 'get it' has convinced me the average anti-gunny is poorly educated in our Constitution, though they may have been well educated in other things.
  3. manolora

    manolora New Member

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    North La.
  4. manolora

    manolora New Member

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    North La.
    I just joined tonight....few minites ago, and ALREADY discovered a kindred spirt. It's nice to be old and need absolutely NO justification for acquiring another one. Had lunch with another one today that I had just met...
  5. gun-nut

    gun-nut Member

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    ohio
  6. gendoikari87

    gendoikari87 Former Guest

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    Because they are the great equalizer. Also, I'm an engieer so I love the mechanics of something so highly refined.
  7. squaw man

    squaw man New Member

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    My dad was small in stature and he spent most of his teen years on a ranch in Montana.
    His favorite expression was "the Good Lord made large people and the Good Lord made small people but Sam Colt made them all the same size".
    When I am carrying, I fear no man!
  8. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    All of the above depending on who and when/where the conversation is taking place but first and foremost it is the challenge of putting a small projectile into a small target at ridiculous range that keeps me coming back. The ability to do that took a long time to acquire and the ability to do it is better than any cold drink of water, any recreational beverage, any happy pill in anybody's medicine cabinet. An hour or three on the range keeps me healthy and helps preserve the safety and well being of people I really want to whack up alongside the head. A day in the woods or on the lake has the same effect but I can't indulge myself as often as I would like. I can always pick up a pistol or air gun and shoot without leaving my front porch. Loading up my gear and going to the range is better but its good any time anyplace. You have bourbon or whacky tobakky, I have shooting. My version of Yoga only noisier and I have shot up targets to show for it. :D
  9. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

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    They are less dangerous than cars or doctors or hospitals or restaurant food - statistically.

    They are the great equalizer. They are serious fun!
  10. WABob

    WABob Former Guest

    Joined:
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    I recently become politically active in Washington State over the issue of using legally owned suppressors. While I had not given firearm suppressors much thought over the years, I had never assumed that they were immoral or illegal. Much to my surprise I have found that too many people not only assume that my new found hobby (I make suppressors) is illegal, but that is it is also weird or immoral to use a muffler on certain "machines".

    While I was used to hearing various media persons just making up "legal facts" to support their gun control agenda, it was different to hear these things from people I was talking to face to face. I have never seen such scorn heaped upon the use of an inanimate object as I do firearm sound suppressors. While most people I discuss it with agree that they are legal to own after I explain the law, some refuse to believe me or backpedal to "no one needs to use those things" argument.

    I once read that when a person tries to convince you that the government has already banned something you own, then the battle is already half lost and we do not need Congress trying to ban them in the future. A sad story to tell, but true.

    Fortunately most of the people I discuss guns with are receptive to new ideas. I especially enjoy showing people to how much they can enjoy the shooting sports. I’ll enjoy it even more if WA passes the suppressor use bill and I can use them without leaving the state. So all is not lost.........yet. :)
  11. photogman2000

    photogman2000 New Member

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    I think Knute Rockne said it best, " If you take your children hunting you won't have to go hunting for your children". Shooting is just plain fun, I'm perhaps the worst hunter in the world, but I enjoy going into the woods with my teenage nieces and nephews to try. I am one of the worst target shooters in the world , but, it's fun to take them to the range and see them try beat me. We have no constitutional right to police protection, it takes them 10 to 30 minutes to arrive and I'm too old to protect my wife with my bare hands. It's the oldest sport in our nation, it is a major part of our national heritage, hunters and other shooters are the reason we have all the state parks and conservation areas we have in this country, they've paid for them with their license fees. The duck stamp program was invented so none shooters would have a way to help pay for these areas, but less than 1 % of the stamps sold are bought by non shooters. Etc, Etc, Etc. there are many sane reasons you can give to a "reasonable" person, there is nothing you can say to someone with a closed mind.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
  12. squaw man

    squaw man New Member

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    I wonder if these same people realize that, should someone be interested in committing a crime with a suppressed firearm, that a large potatoe or a two ltr. soft drink bottle work almost as well as a purpose built suppressor.
    No one would ever suspect what they are going to be used for and they are easy to dispose of after being used.:confused:
  13. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    Location:
    South Jersey
    For me, I have almost always been around guns, my Pop was a LEO when I was young, he was on the police pistol team and had a couple of shelves full of trophys, he taught me to shoot and hunt at a young age, then I joined the Corps, guns again.
    To try to answer as clearly as possible, guns are a part of who I am. I love shooting them, and believe it or not I like cleaning them almost as much as the shooting! I love the challenge of putting the bullet where I want it to hit. AND, now, to take my son out and teach him and spend some super great time together. I can't wait to take my daughter out! It'll be a while yet as she is only 4, maybe next year with the Marlin 60! Oooohhh, I can't wait to see her face!!
  14. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    I think this one has seen it's day.

    Pops
  15. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    I locked this thread, while meaning to lock another one. ooooooops.

    My apologies.

    Pops
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