What do you think about ethanol in your gas?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 300 H&H, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    I guess I have been wanting to post about this for some time. But as a farmer who grows corn, I guess I must bow-out as I have a conflict of interest, as a corn grower. Personally I feel it is a short term solution, until we find something better. Also be aware of the bad press that may be putting a cloud on the industry, Being "bought" by big oil companies, as they are not a "player" in the ethanol industry.
    OK, here are some facts about it. Ethanol from corn is a three steps forward, and one step back sort of conversion. It takes one part added energy to get two additional parts (ethanol) back. SO it is not an ideal thing, as it takes energy to produce. It is traditionally used in a 10% mix with gasoline, but that could be raised without modifications to engines to perhaps as much as 20%. Improvements in the technology have resulted in about 2.8 gal ethanol/bu. of corn are now being produced. But if ALL the corn grown were to be converted to ethanol it would only satisfy about 40% of our needs, and leave nothing for livestock feed, or food.
    I would like to hear from the membership any thoughts they might have about this topic. Before anyone thinks that the farmer are going to make too much money, let me remind you of how many people are penciling my "bottom line" and our input prices are definately reflecting that with 20-25% increases in my input costs. NH3 (anhydros ammonia) is made from natural gas, and the price of the base material has not gone up nearly as much as NH3 has. Pricing based on what the market can bear, not just a fair return. Everbody wants a piece of the "pie!" It sure is going to be an interesting year here on the corn/soybean farm. Best reguards,Kirk
  2. Jay

    Jay Active Member

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    I think that the ethanol issue is just a method of diverting concerns from oil. They're trying to change dependency on oil to dependency on mother nature. If the Arabs get miffed, fuel prices go up...... if there's a bad crop year for corn production, ethanol prices go up. Fuel mileage isn't as good with ethanol, so we'll buy more to get what we used to get with oil. Competition for the corn will drive up prices on other goods as well, so any potential fuel savings will go to higher prices elsewhere.

    I'm not sure what the best solution is, but I don't think ethanol is it.
  3. Actually, I much prefer ethanol in my glass, not my gas. :D;):p

    Jay, I think you have the right of it, as does 300. Ethanol is, at best, a temporary solution. I do think we should be looking far more actively at alternative sources of energy though, not so much from the environmental aspect, as from the simply fact that petroleum is a finite resourse that is diminishing and becoming progressively more expensive. I personally think there is great potential in solar energy for electrical generation, as well as in nuclear power generation.
  4. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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    I am burning E-85, and I have no significant loss of fuel mileage. In the production of ethanol, there is no loss. The remaining corn solids are still being used for animal feed. There are several plants here in Iowa and in Wisconsin that are running a closed loop, they have a sizable herd of cattle in a confined space, and they are collecting the methane emissions from the cattle and using it to fire the corn to produce the ethanol, then feeding the remains of the corn to the cattle. ADM in Clinton has built a new plastics plant, and with the remains they are producing 100% biodegradable plastics.

    300, don't hesitate to blow your own horn on this matter. I am rather unapologetic about the current corn price, in fact, it should be higher and keep going up. It is finally getting close to the point where a man can earn a living without a government crutch, and that is where we should be. That is the one area where the conservative movement and myself part ways, they want no support for farm subsidies, and until the market will support the farmer, stand alone, someone must, because we can't afford to go under, and the market of $2.00 a bushel a corn just didn't cut it. I hope it never comes back. Brazil has been producing its own petroleum needs via ethanol from sugar cane for more than 25 years now. hey are essentially foreign oil free. This is not a temporary solution if we can just convince the rest of the country of that fact. This doesn't have to be made of just corn. The other side of this coin that very few four wheeler drivers think of is Bio-Diesel. This is a product that is greatly beneficial in the Heavy truck industry. Better mileage, and since the introduction of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, (ULSD) Bio offers much better lubricity leading to greater engine life. This ULSD is eating the guts out of our engines, it is like trying to digest sand.


    Bring on the ethanol. The more the better. Bring on the Biodiesel. Heck, I'm heating my house with corn, and saving about $400 a year over LP. That stove has already paid for itself.
  5. DCD, the ethanol idea might well work, if properly developed, as part of an overall alternative energy source package. The problem is, not enough money is being allocated for proper development, and it won't be so long as the oil companies can make obscene profits from petroleum. I agree, were we truly to move toward ethanol, build engines that run well on it--a thing we could do quite easily--, make it readily available, and simultaneously begin development of other sources as well, we could tell the Arabs to take their oil and shove it.
  6. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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    I don't know about it not being properly developed... Take a trip out here to the midwest. There are ethanol production plants being built everywhere they can get a rail spur. This area, other than farming, has been economically depressed ever since the farm crisis in the early 80's. We've just never really recovered. There is an industrial boom going on around here that this area hasn't seen in 40 years, and all of this infrastructure that is being invested in and built is going to be here a while. There isn't going to be this kind of a capital infusion without a return, a significant return, on investment.


    Aged railroad lines, lines that the local population thought had long since been abandoned are seeing new life, because somewhere down that line, someone is building an ethanol plant, and they're going to have to have corn delivered, and product shipped out. We here in Iowa have been using ethanol for 20 years in our cars. It is a proven technology, we're just glad that someone has let the secret out.

    The Iowa Farm Bureau has been instrumental in raising public awareness on the possibilities and production of biofuels. Check out http://www.iowafarmbureau.com
    if you want any more information on them.
  7. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    Thanks for your post dcd. The face of Iowa is being changed as we speak. I wonder how much money is being put into ethanol plants as a sum total. It has to be staggering. And those investing are in it for the long haul, and believe it will be at leaste a part of our energy solution. I really feel that in the urban area's an awfull lot of fuel simply is wasted idling in traffic,or waiting for a signal light to change. I hope a sucessfull electric car is developed for their needs. Wind generation would generate the electricity for that. And yes I have been farming for 20+ years and it really feeels good to be making some money for a change. Lets hope the prices stay up, for I fear if they do not we will be in deep **** in the future, due to the huge increases in our production costs. I guess I have been at this long enough to be sckeptical of our situation as farmers here. I know that with companies like ADM and Dreyfus and the likes, they will be watching our bottom line better than we do.... Know what I mean? So I am a little carefull not to exibit "irrational exuberence " at this time, as I am a little afraid that the public opinion is being swayed away from any "substitute" But you cannot argue with money they say and there is sure ALOT of it being sunk into the western 1/3 of Iowa in ethanol plants. Best reguards Kirk
  8. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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    OK, This is the most current information I could find. This is up to date as of the 30th of last month. This is the list of the current ethanol producing capacity of the country. As you scroll through this, you'll note that most of the production is with the use of corn, but there are companies out there currently making product out of Cheese Whey, Potato waste, and waste beer, to name a few. The latter being in Golden, CO--Pistolenschutze must not be doing his part, because there is beer in CO being wasted, enough that they are making 3 million gallons of ethanol a year out of it. Please note that all of the numbers in this list are Millions of Gallons per year, and I need to credit the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA) (http://www.ethanolrfa.org/industry/locations/) for this list.

    Ethanol BioRefinery Locations

    U.S. FUEL ETHANOL Industry biorefineries and Production CAPACITY

    Company Location Feedstock Current Capacity(mgy) Und. Const./Expnsn.

    Abengoa Bioenergy Corp., York, NE Corn/milo 55
    Colwich, KS 25
    Portales, NM 30
    Ravenna, NE 88

    Aberdeen Energy* Mina, SD Corn 100

    Absolute Energy, LLC* St. Ansgar, IA Corn 100

    ACE Ethanol, LLC Stanley, WI Corn 41

    Adkins Energy, LLC* Lena, IL Corn 40

    Advanced Bioenergy Fairmont, NE Corn 100

    AGP* Hastings, NE Corn 52

    Agri-Energy, LLC* Luverne, MN Corn 21

    Al-Corn Clean Fuel* Claremont, MN Corn 35 15

    Amaizing Energy, LLC* Denison, IA Corn 40

    Archer Daniels Midland Decatur, IL Corn 1,070 550
    Cedar Rapids, IA Corn
    Clinton, IA Corn
    Columbus, NE Corn
    Marshall, MN Corn
    Peoria, IL Corn
    Wallhalla, ND Corn/barley

    Arkalon Energy, LLC Liberal, KS Corn 110

    Aventine Renewable Energy, LLC Pekin, IL Corn 207 226
    Aurora, NE Corn
    Mt. Vernon, IN Corn

    Badger State Ethanol, LLC* Monroe, WI Corn 48

    Big River Resources, LLC* West Burlington, IA Corn 52
    BioFuel Energy - Pioneer Trail Energy, LLC
    Wood River, NE Corn 115

    BioFuel Energy - Buffal Lake Energy, LLC
    Fairmont, MN Corn 115

    Blue Flint Ethanol Underwood, ND Corn 50

    Bonanza Energy, LLC Garden City, KS Corn/milo 55

    Bushmills Ethanol, Inc.* Atwater, MN Corn 40

    Cardinal Ethanol Harrisville, IN Corn 100

    Cargill, Inc. Blair, NE Corn 85
    Eddyville, IA Corn 35

    Cascade Grain Clatskanie, OR Corn 108

    CassCo Amaizing Energy, LLC
    Atlantic, IA Corn 110

    Castle Rock Renewable Fuels, LLC
    Necedah, WI Corn 50

    Celunol Jennings, LA Sugar cane 1.5
    bagasse

    Center Ethanol Company Sauget, IL Corn 54

    Central Indiana Ethanol, LLC Marion, IN Corn 40

    Central Illinois Energy, LLC Canton, IL Corn 37

    Central MN Ethanol Coop* Little Falls, MN Corn 21.5

    Chief Ethanol Hastings, NE Corn 62

    Chippewa Valley Ethanol Co.* Benson, MN Corn 45

    Cilion Ethanol Keyes, CA Corn 50

    Commonwealth Agri-Energy, LLC*
    Hopkinsville, KY Corn 33

    Corn, LP* Goldfield, IA Corn 50

    Cornhusker Energy Lexington, LLC
    Lexington, NE Corn 40

    Corn Plus, LLP* Winnebago, MN Corn 44

    Coshoctan Ethanol, OH Coshoctan, OH Corn 60

    Dakota Ethanol, LLC* Wentworth, SD Corn 50

    DENCO, LLC Morris, MN Corn 21.5

    E Energy Adams, LLC Adams, NE Corn 50

    E3 Biofuels Mead, NE Corn 24

    E Caruso (Goodland Energy Center)
    Goodland, KS Corn 20

    East Kansas Agri-Energy, LLC*
    Garnett, KS Corn 35

    Elkhorn Valley Ethanol, LLC Norfolk, NE Corn 40

    ESE Alcohol Inc. Leoti, KS Seed corn 1.5

    Ethanol Grain Processors, LLC
    Obion, TN Corn 100

    First United Ethanol, LLC (FUEL)
    Mitchell Co., GA Corn 100

    Front Range Energy, LLC Windsor, CO Corn 40

    Gateway Ethanol Pratt, KS Corn 55

    Glacial Lakes Energy, LLC* Watertown, SD Corn 50 50

    Global Ethanol/Midwest Grain Processors
    Lakota, IA Corn 95
    Riga, MI Corn 57

    Golden Cheese Company of California*
    Corona, CA Cheese whey 5

    Golden Grain Energy, LLC* Mason City, IA Corn 110 50

    Golden Triangle Energy, LLC* Craig, MO Corn 20

    Grand River Distribution Cambria, WI Corn 40

    Grain Processing Corp. Muscatine, IA Corn 20

    Granite Falls Energy, LLC* Granite Falls, MN Corn 52

    Greater Ohio Ethanol, LLC Lima, OH Corn 54

    Green Plains Renewable Energy
    Shenandoah, IA Corn 50
    Superior, IA Corn 50

    Hawkeye Renewables, LLC Iowa Falls, IA Corn 105
    Fairbank, IA Corn 115
    Menlo, IA Corn 100
    Shell Rock, IA Corn 110

    Heartland Corn Products* Winthrop, MN Corn 100

    Heartland Grain Fuels, LP*Aberdeen, SD Corn 9
    Huron, SD Corn 12 18

    Heron Lake BioEnergy, LLC Heron Lake, MN Corn 50

    Holt County Ethanol O'Neill, NE Corn 100

    Husker Ag, LLC* Plainview, NE Corn 26.5

    Idaho Ethanol Processing Caldwell, ID Potato Waste 4

    Illinois River Energy, LLC Rochelle, IL Corn 50

    Indiana Bio-Energy Bluffton, IN Corn 101

    Iroquois Bio-Energy Company, LLC
    Rensselaer, IN Corn 40

    KAAPA Ethanol, LLC* Minden, NE Corn 40

    Kansas Ethanol, LLC Lyons, KS Corn 55

    Land O' Lakes* Melrose, MN Cheese whey 2.6

    Levelland/Hockley County Ethanol, LLC
    Levelland, TX Corn 40

    Lifeline Foods, LLC St. Joseph, MO Corn 40

    Lincolnland Agri-Energy, LLC*
    Palestine, IL Corn 48

    Lincolnway Energy, LLC* Nevada, IA Corn 50

    Little Sioux Corn Processors, LP*
    Marcus, IA Corn 52

    Marquis Energy, LLC Hennepin, IL Corn 100

    Marysville Ethanol, LLC Marysville, MI Corn 50

    Merrick & Company Golden, CO Waste beer 3

    MGP Ingredients, Inc. Pekin, IL Corn/wheat starch
    78
    Atchison, KS

    Mid America Agri Products/Wheatland
    Madrid, NE Corn 44

    Mid-Missouri Energy, Inc.* Malta Bend, MO Corn 45

    Midwest Renewable Energy, LLC
    Sutherland, NE Corn 25

    Millennium Ethanol Marion, SD Corn 100

    Minnesota Energy* Buffalo Lake, MN Corn 18

    NEDAK Ethanol Atkinson, NE Corn 44

    New Energy Corp. South Bend, IN Corn 102

    North Country Ethanol, LLC* Rosholt, SD Corn 20

    Northeast Biofuels Volney, NY Corn 114

    Northwest Renewable, LLC Longview, WA Corn 55

    Otter Tail Ag Enterprises Fergus Falls, MN Corn 57.5

    Pacific Ethanol Madera, CA Corn 35
    Boardman, OR Corn 35
    Burley, ID Corn 50
    Stockton, CA Corn 50
    Imperial, CA Corn 50

    Panda Ethanol Hereford, TX Corn/milo 115

    Parallel Products Louisville, KY Beverage waste 5.4
    R. Cucamonga, CA

    Patriot Renewable Fuels, LLC
    Annawan, IL Corn 100

    Penford Products Cedar Rapids, IA Corn 45

    Permeate Refining Hopkinton, IA Sugars & starches
    1.5

    Phoenix Biofuels Goshen, CA Corn 25

    Pinal Energy, LLC Maricopa, AZ Corn 55

    Pine Lake Corn Processors, LLC*
    Steamboat Rock, IA Corn 20

    Plainview BioEnergy, LLC
    Plainview, TX Corn 100

    Platinum Ethanol, LLC* Arthur, IA Corn 110

    Plymouth Ethanol, LLC* Merrill, IA Corn 50

    POET Sioux Falls, SD 1,110 375
    Alexandria, IN Corn #
    Ashton, IA Corn
    Big Stone, SD Corn
    Bingham Lake, MN Corn
    Caro, MI Corn
    Chancellor, SD Corn
    Coon Rapids, IA Corn
    Corning, IA Corn
    Emmetsburg, IA Corn
    Fostoria, OH Corn #
    Glenville, MN Corn
    Gowrie, IA Corn
    Groton, SD Corn
    Hanlontown, IA Corn
    Hudson, SD Corn
    Jewell, IA Corn
    Laddonia, MO Corn
    Lake Crystal, MN Corn
    Leipsic, OH Corn #
    Macon, MO Corn
    Marion, OH Corn #
    Mitchell, SD Corn
    North Manchester, IN Corn #
    Portland, IN Corn
    Preston, MN Corn
    Scotland, SD Corn

    Prairie Horizon Agri-Energy, LLC
    Phillipsburg, KS Corn 40

    Quad-County Corn Processors*
    Galva, IA Corn 27

    Red Trail Energy, LLC Richardton, ND Corn 50

    Redfield Energy, LLC * Redfield, SD Corn 50

    Reeve Agri-Energy Garden City, KS Corn/milo 12

    Renew Energy Jefferson Junction, WI Corn 130

    Siouxland Energy & Livestock Coop*
    Sioux Center, IA Corn 25 35

    Siouxland Ethanol, LLC Jackson, NE Corn 50

    Southwest Iowa Renewable Energy, LLC *
    Council Bluffs, IA Corn 110

    Sterling Ethanol, LLC Sterling, CO Corn 42

    Tate & Lyle Loudon, TN Corn 67 38
    Ft. Dodge, IA Corn 105

    The Andersons Albion Ethanol LLC
    Albion, MI Corn 55

    The Andersons Clymers Ethanol, LLC
    Clymers, IN Corn 110

    The Andersons Marathon Ethanol, LLC
    Greenville, OH Corn 110

    Tharaldson Ethanol Casselton, ND Corn 110

    Trenton Agri Products, LLC Trenton, NE Corn 40

    United Ethanol Milton, WI Corn 52

    United WI Grain Producers, LLC*
    Friesland, WI Corn 49

    US BioEnergy Corp. Albert City, IA Corn 300 400
    Woodbury, MI Corn
    Hankinson, ND Corn #
    Central City , NE Corn #
    Ord, NE Corn
    Dyersville, IA Corn #
    Janesville, MN Corn #
    Marion, SD Corn

    U.S. Energy Partners, LLC (White Energy)
    Russell, KS Milo/wheat starch
    48

    Utica Energy, LLC Oshkosh, WI Corn 48

    VeraSun Energy Corporation Aurora, SD Corn 560 330
    Albion, NE Corn
    Charles City, IA Corn
    Linden, IN Corn
    Welcome, MN Corn #
    Hartely, IA Corn #
    Bloomingburg, OH Corn #

    Western New York Energy, LLC Shelby, NY Corn 50

    Western Plains Energy, LLC* Campus, KS Corn 45

    Western Wisconsin Renewable Energy, LLC*
    Boyceville, WI Corn 40

    White Energy Hereford, TX Corn/Milo 100

    Wind Gap Farms Baconton, GA Brewery waste 0.4

    Renova Energy Torrington, WY Corn 5
    Hyaburn, ID Corn 20

    Xethanol BioFuels, LLC Blairstown, IA Corn 5 35

    Yuma Ethanol Yuma, CO Corn 40

    Total Current Capacity at
    131 ethanol biorefineries 7,022,900,000 Gallons/Year
    Total Under Construction (72)/Expansions (10) 6,451,900,000 Gallons/Year
    Total Capacity
    13,474,800,000 Gallons/Year

    * locally-owned

    # plant under construction
    Updated: October 30, 2007

    Attached Files:

  9. DCD, I make it a rule never, ever, to drink Colorado Kool Aid or Buttwiper!!! Far as I am concerned, they can turn the whole production into ethanol!!! Now, were we talking about good German beer, I would be horrified! :D;):p
  10. RMT

    RMT New Member

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    I guess I don't know enough about it to have much of an opinion, but anything that lessens our need for oil from the middle east I am for...

    Ethonal may be a legitimate option for the future...
  11. cohoskip

    cohoskip New Member

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    They already have the technology for hydrogen fuel cells. Putting it into general use is the big problem.
  12. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for any renewable resource fuel. Like 300H&H said in the initial post, I too think that it's currently a dance around the big issue of foreign oil dependency...but if and/or when it's development evolves a bit more seriously it can be a viable motor fuel. Take a look at the ethanol industry in Brazil for example...they use more than corn for ethanol production and have a better production efficiency than we have at the moment. We can achieve that here in the US too.

    I run E10 and E20 whenever possible in all my vehicles, and have a couple carbed engines that I've specifically tuned to run E85...also have an EFI 90 Nissan pickup that works just fine on E85 at a slight loss of mileage/power. In my area, E85 is currently about $0.30-0.40/gal cheaper than straight gas or E10 and even figuring in the mileage loss it's still cheaper. Too bad more stations aren't carrying E85. Most folks think that you must have a flex-fuel vehicle to run E85, but that's not completely true...many newer vehicles will run just fine on it, but there are some that don't digest it very well. All depends on how flexible the engine control computer is in it's tuning curve.
  13. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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    Bindernut, I have a couple older vehicles I would be interested in running on E-85. Hadn't even considered the idea that I could. any information you could pass along to perpetuate this would be greatly appreciated. danield@fbcom.net
  14. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    Email on it's way dcd.
  15. berto64

    berto64 Active Member

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    As stated above, there are many ag products that ethanol can be derived from beside corn.

    In my corner of Idaho corn is a huge feed crop along with sugar beets for sugar.

    Local farmers have told me the beets has many times more fuel than what can be derived from corn.

    But nobody up here is doing anything with corn or sugar beets. It's a little discouraging to say the least.
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