What do you think of my logic? Vietnam vs. Iraq, AT HOME.

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by polishshooter, May 1, 2007.

  1. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    In another forum here, (NFA Weapons, believe it or not, in a thread about an M2 Carbine) I had a "Road to Ephesus/Eureka Moment....." ( I LOVE the "intellectual stimulation" this place provides! MUCH better than talking to myself on my long trips between inventories on the road....:p )

    Here it is.

    How many of you, like me, lived through the 60s and remember Walter Cronkite, the race riots, the Civil Rights Movement, the Vietnam War protests...

    I remember it like yesterday. I was too young for Vietnam, but I was well on my way in my reading and love of learning about World War II, and the military in general, starting to think about a career in the US Army or the USMC, or maybe the Navy....in a "typical" family with a strong WWII vet Red-White-and Blue Father, and an older brother with a college deferment, sweating the draft, going to occasional protest (for the "loose women" he now says,) and flirting with the draft, and contemplating going to Canada if drafted, which caused a lot of "friction" at home, that as a 10 or 12 year old kid confused the HELL out of me, I would have joined in a heartbeat if I was a few years older...and watching Walter Cronkite every night, seeing the images from 'nam, and all the violence in the streets, and figuring out the 'body counts" to see if we were "winning...."

    And remembering just how MAD I was at the evacuation of Saigon in '75, with the desperate people grabbing the skids of the Hueys at the embassy, with US MARINES clubbing them off and them falling off as the Huey lifted off....(Which will happen AGAIN if the Democrats get us to leave Iraq too soon.....) (I thought THEN and still DO that instead of flying refugees TO the carriers, we should have been flying shuttle A-7 missions OFF the carriers hitting the NVA armored columns with everything we had that were sitting ducks in broad daylight rolling down Highway 1, but they played us and "US Public Opinion" like a fiddle....but I digress....:cool:)

    BUt in 1976 I started College, majoring in History. In one of my classes, I remember a discussion about "allegations" of KGB funding and direct involvement to "cause dissent" in many of our problems of the 60s and 70s...and there has been speculation since....even wondering if the still sealed records about Rev. Martin Luther King and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference contain any records that might prove it, and the almost accepted fact that the Weathermen and the SDS were infiltrated. It was also established that the KGB funneled it's money to dissident groups in the US and the West through the Bank of Prague in the 60s and 70s, (which I remembered during the Clinton era, when nobody ELSE seemed too concerned as to WHY Bill Clinton also happened to travel to Prague during this same time period when he was involved with student anti-war protests....:cool: )

    This "wild hair" hit me when I was recounting the story an old Indian friend of mine that was a "warrior" at the Wounded Knee uprising during the late 60s or early 70s....that he claims he saw a LOT of other "warriors" carrying AK-47s....at a time there were VERY FEW legal AKs in the states! Since then I always accepted that if true, that was "proof" of KGB involvement in our turbulent 60s....

    But, here is the thought that hit me....

    In the 60s and 70s, amid all the unrest, and the supposedly "wildly" unpopular war, what did we have as facts of life? A Liberal, Biased national media? A "hated" Republican President? A Democratic Party tilting WILDLY to the left embracing ALL the "radical movements du jour," doing ANYTHING to regain the White House? Virtually "Anti-War," "Anti-Military", "US is wrong to get involved in a'civil war,'" Hollywood Stars flirting with Treason, spouting wild Anti-US statements?

    We have ALL of that TODAY too....in some cases WORSE than then....

    But back THEN we had tens, maybe HUNDREDS of thousands of people protesting the war almost daily, "Sit-ins" on every college campus, the National Guard called out all over, deaths even, the mall in DC a big "love fest" and drug party. clogged from end to end with protesters and Hippies with "free-love" and drugs.......BESIDES the riots in a lot of cities.....

    But TODAY, when we have an "Anti-War" protest, they manage to get together about 42 people, 10 of them 1960s drug-addled Hippies, 20 or so Move-On-Dot-Org Wackos, and the rest Democratic Presidential candidates trying to get face-time on TV....or a wack job in a ditch in Crawford....

    Here's my Eureka Moment.....

    Could this PROVE that just MAYBE the Politburo and the KGB had a greater influence on US internal affairs back then than we even SUSPECT????

    I'm thinking it just MAY.....What do you think?
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  2. Polish, did you stop taking your lithium chloride AGAIN??? :D ;) :p

    OK, Ok, jokes about bipolar disease and acute paranoid schizophrenia aside for the moment, close analysis of your theory quickly disclosed that it simply could not be valid for one basic reason: A conspiracy on the scale you suggest simply cannot be maintained for any length of time. Someone will talk, which is why all the CIA/military/Lyndon Johnson conspiracy theories surrounding the Kennedy assassination are so utterly absurd. Now, having said that, I have little doubt that the Soviets helped to fund some of the radical groups of the '60s, and I strongly suspect radical Islamic groups add what they can to such anti-US movements today. But to suggest they are some sort of nebulous puppeteer orchestrating the whole shebang defies all logic.

  3. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    No, I'm not suggesting investing in tin-foil underwear and headgear at all.:p

    And what you say about conspiracies are GENERALLY true, sooner or later somebody USUALLY talks (unless of course it is a very GOOD conspiracy...and if the Teamsters still aren't telling us the whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa, I'm sure the KGB could do at LEAST as good a job as them! (GASP, what if they had a hand in THAT too, OMIGOD!:p ;) ....:D )

    And you say we would have known by now....we DO know! THe CIA KNEW the KGB WAS funneling money into the various "movements" inside the US, that much is certain, during the 60s and 70s, and WERE funneling that money through the Bank of Prague, but except for a few highly publicized "small fry" caught and deported or prosecuted, NO ONE has ever truly explained their TOTAL involvement. And with so many CCCP state records STILL "classified" and controlled by the "new" KGB, and with Putin as an-ex Director of the KGB, we won't see THEM for a while....but they are there, the Soviets were true to form of most dictatorships...IMMACULATE record keepers...

    I believe it was NOT the ONLY factor, there are a lot of OTHER factors, like maybe there are just more apathetic lazy uninformed Americans now than then, less motivated "Wackos," less other areas of social unrest, less "control" of the information by the Big 3 TV Networks, among ,many others.....

    But JUST maybe, there ALSO was a LOT more money and direct involvement by the KGB than we even suspect!

    Why would we NOT suspect them to try it here, when they tried with countries and governments it ALL OVER THE WORLD, overtly or covertly during the same time period?? WIth LARGE expenditures of both real and counterfeit monies....

    And a "free-society" like ours would be exponentially EASIER to penetrate to than a lot of others they "influenced..." and who was their BIGGEST percieved threat?

    It's not like there is any selective noral outrage or anything, this was from the SAME people still pretty PO'eed about the U-2 overflights and a bunch of other "misunderstandings" between us since 1945....

    All I'm saying is they probably aren't doing it NOW, couldn't afford it if they could, and too easy top track now....and the "fighting in the streets" IS almost non-existant.....there MIGHT be a correlation to the "outside involvement."

    And this era has OTHER deeper yet unexplored history of the same type too....

    Like for example, do you know WHY the FBI "Special Projects" group broke into the DNC Headquarters at the Watergate Complex, and what they were actually doing when caught, which ultimately led to the resignation of Richard Nixon for the cover-up?

    I'll give you a hint, it had NOTHING to do with politics, which is why I always found the "Generally Accepted" reason given by the press, to get Nixon dirty laundry on McGovern to use during the '72 campaign (Like he NEEDED it with a 70%-30% lead in the polls????) I never accepted THAT either, and when I learned the REAL reason it made sense....

    There is a LOT yet to be discovered by Historians about the 60s....
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  4. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    And, as far as conspiracies, this Thursday I am flying to Dallas for a Regional Meeting on Friday, and a Buddy and I are going to visit Dealy Plaza Thurday afternoon for the first time.

    Anybody got an old Carcano Carbine with a cheap scope I can borrow to take a few test shots from the Book Depository to put the conspiracy theories to bed once and for all?;)

    I MAY just saunter over to the "Grassy Knoll" and kick the grass a little bit just to see if I might be able to find any 44 year old empty cases they may have missied.....:cool:
  5. Big "D" is a neat town, Polish. All kinds of trouble a guy can get into there, especially if the wife is left at home. :D ;) Be careful of the chili though. It will rot your innards and cause you to drink too much beer. :D :rolleyes:
  6. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Oh by the way, PS, have you heard that the National Archives thinks it just might be able to digitally reconstruct the "lost " 18 minutes of audio from Nixon's White House tapes?

    What I've heard is that they have figured out that they had been taped over at least 8 times, and there are several high tech forensics companies out there that specialize in recovering "erased" audio that the National Archives has given test tapes to that have been recorded over 8 times, and the company that does the best job recovering the original audio on the test tapes will get the honor of trying it with Nixon's originals....

    THAT ought to be interesting, talk about conspiracies....
  7. It would be fascinating if those minutes could be recovered, Polish. Tricky Dicky was caught with his hand in the cookie jar and I think those 18 minutes would remove what little doubt about the matter that remains. I still don't think Nixon was involved in the original break-in, but he certainly was in the attempt to cover it up.
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