What kind of groups should be expected?

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by Albtraum, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. Albtraum

    Albtraum Member

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    What kind of groups should be expected when shooting a .22LR rifle with different sights and different shooting positions?

    1. Shooting offhand with the open sights (or "iron sights")? From a table?

    2. Offhand with 4x fixed power scope? From a table?

    3. Offhand higher power scope like 9x, 16x, etc.?

    All at @ 25 yards, 50 yards, 100 yards. I'm fairly new to shooting, and was disappointed in my 50 yards groups last time I went.
  2. jstanfield103

    jstanfield103 New Member

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    What are you shooting, make and model?
  3. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that is some question with all kinds of variables. The rifle, the ammo, and shooter proficiency will all change the results. Some of the bench rest shooters are capable of 1/4 inch groups at 50 yards. I only look on in amazement at their accomplishments. Me, I am just an old plinker to shaky to do much off hand shooting. Because of old eyes I do most of my rifle shooting from scoped rifles as it makes it much easier for me. Here are some groups from this summer using a basically stock Ruger 10/22 Target with a BSA 6x18 - 40mm scope and a bipod rest. Ammo choice makes a big difference in this rifle. I have since installed a new trigger group but not had a chance to really shake that out. There are shooters here that will make my groups look like they came from a beginner, ha. But I have fun. Some of the other Old Guys have different .22LR rifles but they get similar groups. Those groups will double in size for me at 100 yards. Hope this helps.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  4. American Leader

    American Leader Well-Known Member

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    Nice shootin Todd, for an OLD GUY!:lmao2::lmao2::lmao2: Paybacks are HELL aren't they Todd!:na-na:
  5. Albtraum

    Albtraum Member

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    I'm using a Marlin Model 60 SS with a 4x32 Bushnell scope, using CCI minimags and CCI Blazers. At approx. 50 yards, shooting off hand I was getting 5"-6" scattered holes all over the target. From a shaky folding table supporting the rifle with my elbows, I did much better, about ~2" groups. As I recall, at the range which provided sandbags and a stable table, I was hitting bullseyes @ 25 yards, not sure of the consistent group sizes though. Does a higher power scope tighten up groups?
  6. Josh Smith

    Josh Smith Member

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    The correct answer is, "it depends".

    [​IMG]

    The above target was shot at 25 yards using a near-stock, Tech-Sight equipped Ruger 10/22. The top target (100 yard scaled down target) was fired standing, then kneeling, then prone as I worked my way down the target.

    Mag changes get hairy if you don't have something to grab on to! Need banana-style mags.

    [​IMG]

    This is the same drill fired with my squirrel/varmint rifle, a Savage MkII BTVS .22LR. The 'scope was turned down to 4.5x and I don't know that it was that much of a help; I was working the bolt action! I was intimately more familiar with this rifle though as I'd been shooting about 500 rounds per week through it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The above two were both done at 100 yards with modified CCI Blazer ammo. It's easy to plunk subsonics into one hole, but bulk ammo and supersonic ammo are different propositions. These were weighed and sorted by rim thickness, and modified with D Rock's hollowpointer tool.

    Just depends on what you're doing I guess. 110 yards is my self-imposed limit on game with the .22LR. Not because there's not enough power; it's still acting as a heavy .22 Short at that range. It's more because of wind drift and such plus the small vital zones of the critters taken with rimfire cartridges.

    Regards,

    Josh
  7. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Member

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    There is a guy on another forum that has a model 60 that shot some 50yard groups that most high dollar .22's can't do. Not shooting cheap ammo and not completely box stock but all stock parts. Depends highly on your skill too. We have a couple rugers that are .300 and under 50 yards guns with maybe wolf match but federal 922a will shoot more consistant. Son-in-laws marlin 795 is a 3/8" and a bit under 25 yards rifle with the same federal ammo too. Many of us that bench shot for fun have scope that will max at 24 power and higher too. Off hand is allll skill by the shooter. If you have and accurate rifle from the bench it will shoot well standing too.
  8. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    Albtraum, it sounds to me like those shaky rest situations had a lot to do with you group sizes. Another possible problem could be "parallax" in your scope. Many scopes have the parallax set for 100 yards and this is too far for most rim fire shooting. Some rim fire scopes have it set at 50 yards which is better and some scopes have adjustable parallax (AO) which is nice for the shorter ranges we shoot at. Here is an explanation of parallax.
    http://www.6mmbr.com/parallax.html

    I find the higher magnification scopes make is easier for me to keep the group size down. My Marlin 60 has a 3x9 scope with Adjustable Objective lens to fix the parallax.

    I don't try off hand shooting much any more as I am always disappointed in the results. I just can't hold steady. So I shoot off the bench most of the time using sand bags or different rifle rests even a bi-pod on my Ruger.

    Here is another target shot with my stock Marlin 60W using a rifle rest just to give you an example what you can expect with a good rested position from your Marlin. Keep shooting and find as good a rested position as you can and have a great time shooting you Marlin.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  9. CHW2021

    CHW2021 Member

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    The biggest variables are conditions, ammo and shooter. As you can see, the "old guys" have picked their ammo (or their rifle has picked it's ammo) and the conditions are noted on the targets, the only thing left is the shooter. This is a very good case for "practice makes perfect"; I feel confidant in saying that Todd51 is not a newcomer to the sport.

    The comments he made are completely applicable and obviously work for him, try using what you are comfortable with and work from there.
    There are .22 targets for a variety of ranges and skill levels, start at 25 yards and learn the gun and which ammo it likes from the bench with whatever sights you want to learn. Work your way from there, obviously the longer distance is a bit more of a challenge. My daughters favorite target is golf balls at 100 yds with a 3x9 scoped stock parts Ruger 10-22; I would hate to tell you how she does compared to me! when your kid can beat your butt you can be both proud and embarrassed.

    The biggest thing is to relax and have fun.
  10. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Member

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    Aren't young eyes great and not knowing your shooting so well. I bearlt remember those days. HEY, who you call'n old!!


    Todd51 Nice shooting marlin 60. That will make some shooters crazy.
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