what the difference between .45 and .454 casull?

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by focusmaniaczx3, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. zant

    zant Well-Known Member

    Sep 24, 2009
    Small local shop has 2 Freedom Arms .454 revolvers for sale-each comes with a box missing 5 rds:)
  2. JohnnyFlake

    JohnnyFlake New Member

    Dec 15, 2011
    Henderson, Nevada
    DO NOT DO THAT !!!!!!!

    The chance is very strong, that the gun will be destroyed, along with your hand and who knows what else!!!

  3. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2007
    ND, USA
    I stole this pic that jack had posted in the Taurus Durability thread up in the pistol forum. It's not a Judge but a Thunder5...same basic gun though, chambered for .45Colt/.410. Some doofus touched off a .454Casull in it.

  4. jbrescue

    jbrescue New Member

    Mar 8, 2012
    N. Ridgeville, Ohio
    What about putting the 454 in the Magnum Judge? I assume that it still is not meant to handle the 454. Thus, the raging judge is sure to be a stout pistol.
  5. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2007
    ND, USA
    Nope, the 3" .45/.410 Judge still isn't proofed for anything near .454 Casull specs either.

    As Alpo already posted...here's a repeat from the SAAMI specs.
    .454 Casull - 65,000psi (50,000cup)
    .45 Colt - 14,000psi <-these are standard "Colt" loads, not Ruger or Contender level loads.
    .45 Colt (Ruger loads) - 25,000cup
    .45 Colt (Contender) - _________ I don't think there is a SAAMI pressure spec for these loads.
    .410 2.5" - 12,500psi
    .410 3.0" - 13,500psi

    You're talking over three times as much pressure for the Casull. Even Ruger level .45Colt loads are not meant for the Judge.

    Regardless of 2.5" or 3", the Judge is just based on a stretched version of the medium-frame Taurus (65/66, etc) and there's not a lot of extra meat to hold together when you put a 5-shot .45 cylinder in the frame.

    The Raging Judge skips right over the large-frame and goes to the Raging Bull frame (extra large? :D). Yeah it's a big lummox.
    The .454/.45/.410 version uses a six-shot cylinder where the .45/.410 stuffs a seven-shot cylinder into the same frame. Even though it's on the Raging Bull frame, don't think about touching off a .454 in the 7-shot model.
  6. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    I got a feeling that most folks would not shoot a .454 voluntarily after shooting one for the first time. They are not at all pleasant to shoot.; Honestly, if you need that much power, why not just get a rifle??
  7. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    1st step to doing this is to get a disability insurance policy and make me a beneficiary

    step 2

    load away!!!

    step 3 ambulance and other stuff but i'll be counting my money so wont notice

    thats about how it should go but never does, all those who'd write me in have too much sense , dang ... all these idiots in the world and none as close friends

    ya do know i'm joking . a .454 casull needs at least a 11.9 mm thick chamber with 4140 at 74 rockwell as a minimum
    mueller in his action book stated 14.3 mm is his recommended minimum chamber thickness
    ackerly made a note on these in his wildcat build book as very dangerous so made notes on what was needed as so many had been hurt

    heres a drawing of a cross section of the barrel and fore stock just forward of the chamber ( about 3/4" forward )

    see how thick it is ??

    from the mueller book building a single shot falling block rifle, large cal ed

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  8. RandyP

    RandyP Active Member

    Jan 22, 2009
    From a practical standpoint factory ammo for the 'cannons' is VERY pricey. Reloading is almost a must just to be able to fire the things now and then, let alone enough to be proficient. Regardless of the size on the bullet, misses don't count and at over a buck a pop, you want to have hits - lol

    For some, ammo money is not a big deal, for a lot of us it is. Unless I decided to be a hunter or long range steel shooter, I doubt I'd own one of the Casulls or the 500's. They are more a one-time novelty for me and my LGS range rents them should I get the need for big bangs.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  9. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2007
    ND, USA
    I'll take a .454 out of a Freedom Arms single-action over any .500S&W out of an X-frame.
    I think a Raging Bull or the Super Redhawk in .454 would rank right up there with the .500 X-frame as far as being brutal....the DA grip frame doesn't allow the roll up without snapping your wrist along with it.
    Out of a good single-action "plow handle" grip the .454 really isn't as bad as it should be considering the power level. I've done a couple cylinders full in one session. It didn't scare me off completely but I'm not rushing out to buy my own either. :D
    Don't think I'd want to touch off a .500 out of anything though...I've seen a couple locally and it's one of those "one shot per range session" guns. :)

    BUT...since I don't need the horsepower, I'll pass on all of the BIG magnum revolver cartridges. Even a Super Redhawk is a lot more weight than I'd want to carry around. I agree with ya Josh...if you need that much power, grab a rifle.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  10. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    Ive owned them all. and the biggest handgun round i shoot is .44 mag, and its from a rifle. The most powerful handgun round I shoot form a handgun is .357 mag.

    I didnt find the X frame .500 that bad. the size of the grip and functional muzzle brake help alot. not to mention the damn thing weighs as much as a light rifle anyway. But Ive had a .454 raging bull and a .480 raging bull. couldnt keep scopes on either of them. Recoil was brutal, muzzle blast was significant. And to this date the most uncomfortable handgun cartridge Ive ever fired was a .475 linebaugh in a T/C pistol. 425 gr bullet at damn near 1800 fps is stupid from a handgun. All of those crazy magnum handgun rounds are better fired from a lever action carbine or something similar. ay more control and alot less percieved recoil.. and since leveractions are proofed for rifle cartridges they usually do not have an issue with the powerhouse handgun rounds.
  11. al45lc

    al45lc Active Member

    Mar 8, 2010
    colorful colorado
    I load a 335 gr. G.C. (Lyman 452651BV) to 1223 fps with 21 grs. H-110 (1112 ft.lbs. mv) in my Blackhawk, that's not even max.
    That load has taken Elk at 75 yds with no problem.
    Although heavy in recoil, the Bisley Blackhawk handles it well and it's not uncomfortable to shoot dozens of rounds.
    That same load does 1560 fps out of my Marlin 1894, and is highly accurate in both guns.
    I see no reason for a more powerful cartridge, but I'm part and partial to the .45LC (Ya couldn't tell?) so that has some bearing.

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  12. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    I've shot a Freedom Arms and I own a Super Redhawk, and of the two I preferred the Ruger.

    That may be because the Freedom Arms I shot was a 4 3/4 barrel, and the Ruger weighs about a pound more than it did.

    When fighting recoil, weight does help.
  13. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    al45lc nice eh ...
  14. LDJ

    LDJ Member

    May 26, 2011
    Oklahoma. USA
    I shoot a lot of Ruger only 45's (250 gr. HP XTP that I load) with my Ruger Redhawk 454. (At 50 Yards) They are a good easy round with a little kick. I shoot at least a box (20) of Hornady 240 gr HP XTP when I go to the range. (At 100 Yards) They are not that bad either. I'm 66 years old and If it is not that bad for me anybody who wants should be able to handle it. I have an Elite scope that is made for 454's and I have had no problems. I had never had a Pistol with a scope that I can shoot at a distance and hit any thing. So I am having a great time with mine. It's all in what you want to shoot. Each his own.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
  15. RandyP

    RandyP Active Member

    Jan 22, 2009
    "what is the difference between .45 and .454 casull?"

    Made me think of the old joke about "Why is a hotel saloon like an elephant's fart?"

    A hotel saloon is a 'bar room' and an elephant's fart is a 'BAROOM!".
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